Java, lol

I was told by a game developer at this seminar that if I want to learn how to program games, a good way to start is with Java and making cellphone games. I plan on learning C++ before Java anyway but around how long would it take a newbie to learn Java or when would it be a good idea to learn Java if not at all?

>>40
You are a retard.  You are obviously too stupid to learn C++ or Java, and OpenGL is an API, not a programming language.

>>39
NO U

>>38
Who says you have to write a 3d renderer in python? Write the renderer in a lower level language and write python bindings to it

That's probably satire, guys...

>>43
Renderer?  WTF are you going on about, programs make API calls that pass points and matrices to the graphics hardware, where they are transformed/scan converted/lit/etc.  The 3D code that is written in the program is stuff like movement and collision detection with vectors and bounding geometry.

Remember guys, to pythonistas Python is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

Why are there so many inexperienced programmers running around saying that Python is the One And Only language?  Did they start teaching it in high schools or something?  Different languages have different uses.  In this case, the OP wanted to get into gave development.  Almost all large scale commercial games are written in C++, therefore learning it along with the OpenGL and DirectX APIs should be his ultimate goal.  That being said, Java would be a good way to start because all the libraries needed for basic games are built in (timers, graphics, etc.) and the language is easier to work with for beginners.  He could start with basic programs, then work up to taking input, timing the game, and using the graphics library.  After that, C++ would be lot easier to understand and through learning memory management he could learn about all the various optimization structures like quadtrees, scene graphs, bsp trees, etc.

You can't get into game development without learning how to program. Game programming is seriously the worst kind of programming to teach you good programming skills. Game programmers  never finish their game, never release their source code and rarely work together with someone else. A Game programmer is a guy  who has half written 2 or 3 "engines" but finished nothing. Even commercial game code is horrible.

Oh those are not called optimizations, those are called algorithms and datastructures. Why don't you go back to arguing if preincrement is faster than postincrement.

>>48
What the fuck do you think the algorithms and data structures are for?  You don't NEED to use a quadtree, but you do because it's faster than testing everything in the world when you only care about a small area.  If you are trying to dispute that algorithms and data structures aren't used to increase performance, then you need to get out of this thread.

And stop making some whiny incoherent rant about "Game programmers".  A game is a system just like any other project, you can apply good software engineering practices like prototyping and risk analysis.  Sounds to me like you couldn't get a job, and you just want to whine about it here.

>>40

Yeah, especially SQL. There is no 3D without SQL

>>47
This post is made of win. I've never even heard of a large scale game written in Python, let alone a commercial one. If you pythonians think you can do anything in it, then link me to a large scale high-performance 3D game.

For you anti-Java zealots, YES, JAVA SUCKS, WE KNOW, but it's simple enough to easily learn OOP, and it's similar enough to C++ make a smooth transition when you want to build a real project. I'm so sick of getting a flood of "oviously u'v never programed real apps lol" every time we recommend Java to someone interesting in learning. Yes, we know, you're not supposed to program real apps in Java. Jesus christ.

As far as learning optimization structures, if you're a person who likes to learn by example, there are a lot of open source high-performance 3D engines out there from which you can learn. Irrlicht, Lightfeather, OGRE3D, Crystal Space, etc. I recommend starting with Irrlicht, and from there you can move to a more serious engine or start writing your own.

>>50
SELECT DISPLAY_LIST(x, y, z) FROM mesh?

>>51
For example, Civilization 4, not a graphics-demanding game but an AI/CPU-intense game, uses Python for the AI.

>>52
that's why it's ai sucks lol. it needs to cheat to win against a decent player. what kind of ai is that.

>>51
Temple of Elemental Evil uses Python with PyGame, bitch ;)

>>54
Mediocre game at best, bitch ;)

>>54
Intergalactic fail:

Q. What language are you writing the gamecode in?
A. (S.M. 2/6) The renderer is written in C, the animation player is in C++, the game logic and user interface is also written in C, and most of the scripting is done in Python (thanks Guido).

ToEE is written in C/C++ you fucking noob. It uses Python for ENVIRONMENTAL SCRIPTING, and it does not use PyGame whatsoever. Way to check your facts before opening your mouth.

What's more is it's not exactly a high-performance game; it uses shitty 3D characters and doodads rendered on a static sprite-based isometric environment. This reeks of pure shit. Even if it were written in Python, this would prove nothing.

>>52
So? Give me an example of a high-performance game engine written in Python. You idiots keep saying you can code anything in Python, well FUCKING SHOW ME.

Do any of the Python fanboys here actually have any experience with graphics or game engines (i.e. have taken a upper level college course in graphics or real time rendering), or are you all just speaking from your "experience" from making Python tic-tac-toe in an intro course and reading some articles online?

Does Python have Buzzwords now?

Is Python the new Java?

>>53
How good or bad, decent or undecent the algorithms used are doesn't invalidate Python.

>>56
Python is not the best for 3D engines. Big deal.

>>58
Python does not have buzzwords because buzzwords are not Pythonic.

Python is not the new Java because even Guido commanding an army of fanboys funded by Google couldn't turn it to something as shitty as Java (both language and API) in 30 years. Java is an amazing scatologic work.

>>58
Is Python the new Java?
Yes.

>>59
Python does not have buzzwords because buzzwords are not Pythonic.

I rofled. This speaks volumes, doesn't it?

"pythonic" is a buzzword

so what are the Python equivalents of:

enterprise
scalable
web 2.0 ready
best practices

>>62
You haven't been in the business long, have you? Well, gouge out your eyeballs, because here you go: http://www.zope.com/ Go on, read it; you know you don't want to.

PS. "pythonic" == "best practices", if you're not bright enough to notice the obvious.

>>61
Yeah, I was kidding. But I don't use any buzzwords in Python, except Pythonic to piss non-Pythonic people off.

>>62
All you said is zope.com. What's good about Python is that the enterprise shit is isolated in Zope, so you can have an enterprise scalable business-free Python by simply staying away from Zope.

>>63
I digress; Pythonic == whatever Guido feels like. It's a set of practices, syntax, coding style, indentaion style, comment style, English style, and even the way you sit when you code.

>>59
Python is not the best for 3D engines. Big deal.
End of thread, you have admitted that Python is not the best for 3D Engines, and this was a discussion about game programming.  Everyone shut up about python, because it does not belong here.

Python is not the best for 3D Engines, and this was a discussion about game programming.
I see what you did there.

>>65
Games != Realtime 3D games

>>67
YOUR LOGIC IS WRONG
Realtime 3D Games are a subset of Games.  And if you subtract the set of Realtime 3D games from the set of Games, you end up with a subset of Shitty, Boring Games

>>68
Your logic is stupid, and it's also American. It's very sad if you can only find fun in 3D games, and it's also American.

That's not to say 3D games suck; they are great, but 2D games can be great as well, all up to gameplay and tastes.

>>69
Someone really likes turn based tabletop war games.

>>70
I like most kinds of games, including 2D weeaboo RPGs, 2D strategy games (ZERG RUSH KEKEKE), and puzzles (especially if they are weeaboo puzzles like Puyo Puyo).

>>59
Python is not the best for 3D engines. Big deal.
Finally. Glad you agree with what we've been saying all along. Now quit recommending Python to the OP already, Jesus Christ.

>>72
Oh but Python is so... Pythonic, I can't resist :P

They just recently started teaching Python in the Program and Data Representation class at my college.  I have experience programming games and graphics engines in C++ from some upper level CS courses.  All this Python talk has finally convinced me to use my remaining free time this summer to learn it.  Expect a thread in a month or so about how much Python fucking sucks for games, etc.

>>74
__Welcome__ to Python! Jokes aside, I think you'll find it interesting at worst, and you'll probably find uses for it, graphics or not.

What >>75 means to say is Python.__welcome__(self)

Any good Python for C++ programmers guides, so I don't have to wade through "Hello World" tutorials or explanations of what an int is?

http://docs.python.org/tut/

>>77
http://www.diveintopython.org/ is a damn good book.

>>78