Do companies that hire programmers expect them to work overtime, like even when they're at home?
I'm about to send my resume to a bunch of companies but I'm afraid once I get a job I'll have no time for myself anymore. I really want to beat Earthbound but responsibilities are already taking up enough time as it is.
Will I have more free time, or less free time, when I get out of college at the end of this semester and have a programming job?
Does it depend on -what- you're programming?
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Anonymous2006-05-08 15:55
I was a programmer(.NET with MSSQL and occationally had to maintain some older apps written in ASP/PHP running on MySQL), for 12 months after getting my BS degree, I hated it. I like programming as a hobby more.
Meanwhile, I am thinking about getting a degree in English linguistics (English is not my first language) and try to learn Chinese. Translating, heck, or even teaching is a job I think I could do, it lacks the stuff that annoyed me about programming(fixing old, undocumented software, trying to get relevant and persice information from clients regarding their wishes - that is fuckin' hard, people often don't have an idea what they really want from their information system, they have some vague ideas, but as they say, the devil is in the details)
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Anonymous2006-05-08 16:10
>>1
I'm a programmer, mainly doing PHP applications (with AJAX and shit lol), did a bit of Java (fortunately not much, gah!) and will do some Python in the future (looking forward to it). I also do some training on MySQL and shortly PHP. I give my very best in my 8 hours and expect to have the rest for myself. So far it's been alright, and I love my profession so I'm having lots of fun even if I have to work under pressure sometimes. There have been few things I disliked (indeed related to fixing another application - one of the kind that gave PHP its name, as well as the Java bit), but most of it was ok and I had a good environment to work with.
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Anonymous2006-05-08 19:53
9-6 here. Never had to work overtime, except for a couple weeks once due to some crunch. This is in Australia, mind you.
Will I have more free time, or less free time, when I get out of college at the end of this semester and have a programming job?
Less free time.
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Anonymous2006-05-08 22:47
If you're coming out of grad school, more free time. And the added bonus of not having that thesis hanging over your head. Expect to be working >40 hours/week for stretches at a time, and only 40 hours/week for stretches at a time.
E.g., the project I'm currently on has been mismanaged and mis-scheduled from the get-go by the corporate politicos that be. Resultantly, I've been on 50+ hour weeks for the last 3 months and will probably be on 50+ hour weeks until we ship (by their schedule, June. By reality-check, late september.) Of course, I spent all of last year without one week >40 hours.
It all really depends on the business model that you find yourself a part of and the compensation that you expect. Short version (and these are generalities, exceptions exist): Corporate world => More money, shittier work conditions. I'm making $65k/yr entry level. Private world => Less money, better work conditions. My sister makes $40k/yr, but has a lot more fun doing it.
Do what you want and jump in with your eyes open. I'm using this job to get 5-10 years resume experience, a vested pension, a good start on my 401(k), and build up a pretty nest egg. Then I'm gonna bail out and find myself a company that really understands how to write software.
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Anonymous2006-05-09 3:12
I get paid minimum wage to maintain a decade old pile of spaghetti code written in VB6, and I hate my life.
If you say I'm a programmer and PHP in the same line it means you are a 14 year old kid.
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Anonymous2006-05-09 8:32
You have more free time in a job if you work 8 hrs a day. Don't work any more hours and don't slack on the job. If work doesn't fit 8 hrs too bad. Don't waste at time work because if you are salaried you'll have to pay for it later.
I do whatever people need done, web stuff with ASP.NET, PHP. Database stuff with the above, VBA (access, and I hate VBA), application stuff with Java, C#.net, vb.net. Alongside techsupport, DBA, network admin, webmaster, etc. Not that I don't still slack off and lurk 4chan alot anyways.
Different companies have different cultures. The New York brokerages like Goldman expect 60 hours/wk and ask you in the first interview if you're willing to do that. Some government departments look the other way if you leave the office after about 5 hours in the morning. I think the average is 35 hours/wk until the month before the project deadline, then it's 12 hours/day and Saturdays too. That'll happen 3 or 4 times per year.
Even within a large company the culture can vary from one project to another.
And there's a steep learning curve your first year when you find that school has barely prepared you for real software systems. That takes extra time. An experienced boss will be watching you closely during that first year. If you rise above the mickey mouse intern assignments and prove yourself on real heavy duty apps, he'll want to keep you and you might get a 40% raise.
Database designers and system architects are usually the top of the heap. Volunteer for design assignments when they come up and do them well so the boss trusts you with more and more system architecting. Study design memos the experienced architects have written until you understand their reasons for arranging data flow a certain way. Those decisions usually comes from 10 years of hard experience. Read up on Oracle or whatever database they use and be ready to answer questions that come up about how to do X in Oracle. The DB guru is a plum position. Ditto for network security expert in some companies like banks.
Tracers and debuggers can be real handy when you maintain existing code. Keep on top of the best tools in that area.
I could go on, but nobody reads this far into a post.
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Anonymous2006-05-10 4:27
>>17 The New York brokerages like Goldman expect 60 hours/wk and ask you in the first interview if you're willing to do that.
Lol? If they asked me such a thing in an interview, I would not reply, smile, elegantly bow goodbye and leave immediately, then proceed to remove all related contacts from my contacts.
Valuable information BTW, +1 insightful.
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Anonymous2006-05-10 7:24
damn, i live in damn 3rd world, only pays $6/day, 9 hours a day
60 cent per hours....LOOOOLLLL SHI-----XD
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Anonymous2006-05-10 12:33
>>15
No. If I want to write an OS in Ada, and then come here and tell you about it, I will.
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flibberdyjibbet!dxXqzZbxPY2006-05-10 13:45
Continuing from my post 17...
Large companies survey each other's salaries and cap the salaries for certain positions like Programmer I/II/III. To get beyond those caps you have to get into management or self-employment.
For management, prepare by volunteering for administrative assignments. The manager will need to go around twice a week and check on all the programmers' progress. He might delegate that task. Volunteer for it. (It's tricky, though. Old programmers don't appreciate some kid grilling them on their work status.) Meetings are the managers stock in trade. Attend all of them and have answers to the questions that come up. Those questions will usually be "We need job X done. Who can do it?" So you should know everyone's skill set and how busy/available they are. They #1 plum management track is sales. If you close some new deals with customers, you're gold. You can look for the old manager who seems to be doing that and get cozy with him. Help him out with his tech questions and learn his ways and contacts. The customers will start calling you directly if you a) know the answers, b) don't have an irritating personality, and c) can accurately estimate if a given deal will be accepted by your company.
The best thing I ever did in sales was go to meetings with customers where I was the programmer on the app they were discussing. The customer would ask for a function, I'd tell him I could do it. No middle man. They got to know me by name and call me for support. Then I quit and started my own company.
Speaking of that, read you're intellectual property contract carefully. Some of them are really pushy giving the company ownership of every idea you have during employment and for some time afterward. If you were an experienced specialist instead of a scrub, you'd be in a position to re-negotiate the IP contract.
Most of us eventually get fed up with employment and try to strike out on our own. Ease into that. Write your app for a couple hours each evening. Advertise it on a prefessionl looking web site AND GET GOOGLE TO LIST THAT SITE by puttig links to your site in other places like blogs and forums. Give away free demos with restricted functions. Use EXECryptor for anti-piracy. Get some cash flow on 2 or 3 apps before you quit your day job. Or start a contracting company where you supply programmer labor to big companies. I've known guys who did VERY well at that.
(Tired of typing. Bye.)
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Anonymous2006-05-10 16:07
I work as a software engineer in a large advertising company, and I have flexible hours, and don't need to put a certain number of hours per day/week/whatever, as long as I get my job done.
I personally work about 8 hours per day, although some people probably work more.
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Anonymous2006-05-11 3:34 (sage)
Use EXECryptor for anti-piracy
DRM FAG
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Anonymous2006-05-11 3:42
>>23
I agree that all people who ever designed, worked on, used, planned to use, or planned to plan to use DRM should be shot, but how does that relate to this thread any more than Captain Picard?
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Anonymous2006-05-11 10:00
>>24
Because Picard is Enterprise, the other is not
>>21
Wow, you sound successful. I wish I was you. =(
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flibberdyjibbet!OxEQ.F0AOw2006-05-11 20:36
>but how does that relate to this thread any more than Captain Picard?
Sorry for the long posts. I missed my stop on the Train of Thought.
>Wow, you sound successful.
No, just really experienced. Don't make my mistakes. Office politics and salesmanship are very important. Pay attention to them.
Here's a guy who asked customers what they wanted and gave it to them. Try to be a good salesman with your bosses+customers. http://www.inc.com/magazine/20020201/23855.html
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Anonymous2006-05-11 20:38
Problem is, being a salesman sucks. Your neurons die.
>>29
Depends what kind of salesman you are. if you're selling a politically or idiot dictated piece of shit, kiss your neurons goodbye.
>>28
Of course, realize that customers tend to want completely different products than bosses. Especially bosses that have been fed loads of crap from shitty consultants.
Finding a good fulltime programming job is hard. You'll always want anything outside of standard working hours to be yours, or compensated. Not having to work with shitty code bases is always a bonus.
On the flipside, finding good fulltime programmers that you don't have to work like mules is also hard.
Fulfilling both is even harder.
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Anonymous2006-05-31 5:41
As my full-time job, I design and program systems for a medium-sized manufacturing company. It's quite interesting and a very different environment to these 'cube farm' gigs. It's a mix of database application programming in VB.NET and T-SQL and some Excel, and reverse engineering and writing addons for our existing obsolete unsupported ERP system using IDA Pro, C++ and Assembler. I'm on £25k ($47k) which is fine by me as it's my first job after finishing University.
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Anonymous2006-05-31 5:43
i was full time programmer...but now i just got fired..damn !!! XD
i got fired today, because i always come to work late and i dont give a shit about my work, because i hate it so much, so many self centered people there....so i dont really mind getting fired. (kinda sucks though, i have to look another job, food stock running low).
and oh, i'm PHP programmer,...well was, i prefer using C++ though
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Anonymous2006-05-31 18:57
My cracking team broke EXECryptor's routine, try again
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Anonymous2006-06-02 16:40
>>40
you wouldn't post here if you had a "team" and wrote useful code.
Bringing /prog/ back to its people
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy