what questions should I ask job interviewers?

Well 4chan, I've just graduated university and when I move up North I'm going to be looking for a job.

I'm one of those slackers who never bothered getting a job while in college, so I'm going to try to emphasize what I learned rather than the fact I have no references or "real world" experience.  I think I pretty much know what to emphasize and tout.

What I don't know is what to ask the job interviewer.  What sort of things should I look for in a company?  Most of the questions I have are related to a company's morals (stop laughing) -- for example if I have a feeling they'll have me work on DRM or "Trusted" Computing, I'll scratch out that company as one to work for.  Other than that, what other sort of information is good to get out of a job interviewer when I'm a job-newbie/programmer-journeyman?

Ask what version control system they use.

If you have no experience and want to be picky like that, don't expect to get employed. You can afford to get picky after you've proven yourself capable.

The kinds of questions you ask depends on who is interviewing you. In general it's a good idea to ask what they're doing, whether they can show you around, about training, activities, etc, unless there were already stated in the job ad.

>>3 >>If you have no experience and want to be picky like that, don't expect to get employed. You can afford to get picky after you've proven yourself capable.

I'm not sure I understand.

I can only prove myself capable if I get a job.

But not having had a job before, I won't get the chance to prove myself capable?

That's always why I've been hesitant to apply for computer science jobs -- pretty much all of the job descriptions say "requires 1-4 years prior experience".  Um... taken literally, how are NEW people going to ever enter the workforce?  I came to the conclusion they just put that there so they have leverage to pay you less when you're new, which I have no problem with, and that I should just go ahead and try to get the job anyway.

>>1
or example if I have a feeling they'll have me work on DRM or "Trusted" Computing, I'll scratch out that company as one to work for.
I salute you. You can openly tell them that, if they don't like it then they suck.

what other sort of information is good to get out of a job interviewer when I'm a job-newbie/programmer-journeyman?
ASK IF YOU WILL BE DOING JAVA. IF SO, RUN AWAY. QUICKLY.

pretty much all of the job descriptions say "requires 1-4 years prior experience".  Um... taken literally, how are NEW people going to ever enter the workforce?  I came to the conclusion they just put that there so they have leverage to pay you less when you're new
You are right.

>>4
"for example if I have a feeling they'll have me work on DRM or "Trusted" Computing, I'll scratch out that company as one to work for."
That is exactly it. If you want to be picky like that but have no experience, don't expect to be employed. You can decide to do it after you have enough relevant experience, not before. And for another, a lot of interviewers (if they have a clue anyway) will simply go "let's say that we are, etc" and test your response, even if they don't do any work in that field. When it's your turn to ask questions, they are still testing you.

What you definitely don't want is to work for a group of fuck ups. e.g. The kinds that required 3 years of Windows 2003 experience in the year 2003. Or wank off on Java. Steer clear, they make you stupid.

"experience" is pretty vague, this is one area where the interviewers will be seeing what you can leverage effectively if you're straight out of school. You should also note, most interviews are conducted differently between people with and without experience.

>>6
You say not to be picky then steer clear off Java (which I agree with)? There are far more jobs about Java than there are about digital restrictions management and treacherous computing, because the people working on the last two are just a band of thugs working for a few fat short media kingpins.

I wouldn't recommend being absolutely picky like "Hi, I want to make games. Platform games in particular, no simulators please. Ah, the character needs to be blue.". But I do recommend taking your time to choose a good job. You will be doing it for half of your life (the time you're awake anyways), so you better like it, and it's usually hard to move from one sector to another once you have experience, because even if you're willing to get paid less, if you apply for a DBA after having worked on embedded applications, for example, some managers will be like "Ah, you are a developer...". Moreover, you have less shit going on at this point of your life than later (i.e. paying a house, feeding your kids, etc.), so you can afford to wait now better than you will later.

This is why I recommend you're not ridiculously picky and you keep open to everything, but only go for something you're sure to like.

>>7
Forgot to say:
PROTIP: the pay is not the most important thing in a job. I wouldn't work on Java even if paid 40% more than I am right now.

>>7
Because Java makes you stupid, you want experience, not become stupid.

Should I be honest about my shortcomings as well, if they ask?

Like if they ask "why haven't you had a job before?", should I just come out and say honestly why I didn't feel like getting a job until I was out of college?  Or come up with some sugar-coated but believable excuse?

If they ask about your flaws are they hiring based on your actual flaws, or how honest you come across to them?

Yeah I'm insecure.  I've been a very good programmer in college but I'm still uncertain about myself when it comes to the unknown.

Should I be honest about my shortcomings as well, if they ask?

Yes, but always add qualifiers (without sounding apologetic).

I didn't feel like getting a job until I was out of college?

On second thought, lie through your teeth.

I didn't feel like getting a job until I was out of college?
I didn't either, because I'm a lazy bastard and wanted to fap to hentai all day, yet this hasn't been a problem for getting the first job.

I'm insecure.  I've been a very good programmer in college but I'm still uncertain about myself when it comes to the unknown.
You become secure as you learn new things and take more challenges. If you succeed, you'll become a bit more confident every time, seeing as you manage to do it. In a couple of years, by mere statistics, you'll know what you're capable of doing even if it's unknown.

| I didn't feel like getting a job until I was out of college?
They most definitely don't want to hear that. Sugar coated BS FTW. Lazy is only an advantage when it involves doing more/better work with less effort.

| If they ask about your flaws are they hiring based on your actual flaws, or how honest you come across to them?
If you profess to be an expert, you damn better well be, or they'll likely show you the door shortly. I know I will. Being aware and honest of your flaws is a good thing. If you haven't learnt to take advantage of your flaws, now is a good time to start >_> e.g. If you get sidetracked easily, it can be an advantage in exploring other options.

| I'm insecure.  I've been a very good programmer in college but I'm still uncertain about myself when it comes to the unknown.
see >>12
Far too many people refuse to go even the slightest bit out of their comfort zone and start citing "we don't have domain knowledge, blah blah blah whatever bullshit". These people suck at learning new things, produce crap and eventually become a liability.

>>10

"I felt that I needed to devote all of my time to learning during my years in college, so that I will have a robust skill set that will help make it easier for me to find a job when I graduate. In retrospect, I should have taken on the work placements that were available to me at the time so that I can get some experience working in the field, but that is my reason."

>>14
People still think you actually learn things in (not outside) college? LOL!

>>15

Hopefully the interviewers still do!

>>14
Awesome

>>16
Yeah, interviewers somehow believe you learn things at uni. All you learn to do is slack off, or have your ass raped, or both.

made it to project manager here. do occasional interviews also.
>>9
sigh. these are the type of idiots that i would never hire. you do as you are told. you will earn java and work in a pair-based programming environment if you have to.
java doens't make you dumb. its your attitude that stops you from learning and making your sterile.

agree with >>13.

>>18
Oh but regardless of if you like it or not, >>9 was right. Java is a lame programming language/API. The fact managers choose it because they read about it in a Sun ad in a magazine doesn't change this. I personally would not like to work on it, because I love my job and I want it to stay this way.

If work were about doing what you're told, then I would work in anything that had the highest pay and I could do, which may have nothing to do with software. But I will be working for half of the time I'm awake during most of my life, so I better love it or I'll be pretty unhappy. That's why I choose what to work in, and why I chose not to work with Java.

>>10

As someone who interviews college students and recent college grads for my boss when he's out of the country:

1)  If you give a sugar-coated, bullshit answer we'll know.  We've heard it before.  About a dozen times.

2)  A willingness to state and accept a few specific, professional weaknesses is generally interpreted as a willingness to grow.  Don't overdo it, though.  Someone who claims to know it all generally won't get hired.

3)  Your first job is your first job.  Don't expect it to be your career-completer.  Odds are pretty good that you'll be laid off within 10-15 years even if you don't quit to go to greener pastures.  Use your first job as an experience builder and as a place to learn more/master your field.

4)  Don't equate admitting a lack of knowledge to being unwilling to learn (as >>13 apparently has).  It's important to let your manager know when you'll be playing a game of catch-up because it'll probably take longer for you to complete.  Remember that 90% of technology decisions are based on business reasons.  Your cost-to-develop is an input to that equation.

Remember that 90% of technology decisions are based on stupidity.
Fixed. True story.

>>19

that's fair enough. my personal take on it is that avoiding projects/jobs based on the language is a massive shortcoming. perhaps choosing an application domain over another is more of a valid reason. you'd seldom see java used in embedded devices.

having said that, the trend is moving... im' seeing serial-ethernet converters with jvm support straight out of the box. plc with jvm and web servers. yep you guessed it, xml support etc.

it isn't all manager talk. no managers would choose buzz words over existing working solutions.

>>20, great post mate.

no managers would choose buzz words over existing working solutions.

...lol

>>22
it isn't all manager talk. no managers would choose buzz words over existing working solutions.
I lol'd

| 4)  Don't equate admitting a lack of knowledge to being unwilling to learn (as >>13 apparently has).
Read >>13 again

| it isn't all manager talk. no managers would choose buzz words over existing working solutions.
You need to meet more managers then, and the sales people that talk to them.

Hi, I can spam /prog/ too, you faggot.

Also, smoke weed everyday.