Job Market in Programming

I just recently started programming, and I've found I have a knack for it.

Being as I'm going into college, and chosing a major, I just thought I'd ask what the job market for programming was like.  I mean, are programmers in demand enough that I'll never be out of a job, or is finding a job difficult? Is it a good choice of major?  How much is the salary usually for a good C/C++ programmer?

Turn back while you can. No. Really.

If you're in it for the money, read >>2.

If you want to pass your genes on in this lifetime, >>2 is good advice.

Actually, if you have to ask this question at all, read >>2.

It might be a little hard when you get out of college, but things will be improving for the market enormously soon.

http//www/...
^- Taken from Slashdot

Facts on various computer jobs (U.S. Department of labor):
"Computer Programmer" - http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos110.htm - Median salary of 62, 890. Fresh out of college with bachelor's: ~50k (expect less...)

"Computer scientists/databse admins" - http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos042.htm - Median salary: ~80k. Fresh out of college: ~90k with doctorate in comp. sci.; ~50k with bachelors.; ~46k with degree in systems analysis; ~44k with degree in informational system management.

"Computer software engineers" - http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm - Median salary: ~75k. Fresh out of college /w bachelors: ~53k. (Important side note - this is the field expected to grow the most)

I hope this all helps you out on your decision, but most importantly do what you want to do. Trust me, I've seen people get a degree in something they dislike, then never have enough money to get another degree and basically have to change jobs every ~3 years or so because they really just don't _like_ what they are doing.

I'm >>4, I do not think I stressed enough that with the "Fresh out of college" salary, expect less. Less less. You know my point. At least you'll still be ahead of Liberal Arts :P

>>5 Liberal Arts = "Do you want fries with that?"

>>1

If you like programming and have a knack for it, take my advice and get a major in another field which you like better if not equally. Keep programming on the side as a hobby/interest. That way, you can always apply your programming knowledge on the side to whatever field you chose, and well, will more likely to get a pay raise than if you chose programming as your main job.

Think about it this way, when you apply for a future job, you'll have 2 skills, your main field of study, and programming knowledge. Now compare this to the next guy who's stuck with only programming as his main skill...

>>7
Programming != computer sciences.

>>1 here.
>>7
Hmm... Sounds like a better plan.  Come to think of it, I don't actually need any degrees or anything to be a programmer.

Honestly, I'm using my programming to pull a Pixel and make a platform videogame.  I don't *like* programming as such, I just found I have ability...

BTW, would this be a good forum for a newb to programming to ask questions?  Or is this like the good old boys club where everyone who doesn't know what exception handling is will be ridiculed?

>>9
Asking questions is encouraged. Only three "rules":
1) Java sucks.
2) We won't do your homework for you.
3) See 1).

what's a good lisp compiler?

... Lush

>>12
Lush sucks, doesn't even have garbage collection.

>>11
SBCL.

>>12,13
Same person.

>>14
And >>11.

Pay attention to >>8

If you're just after programming, don't waste your time with Comp Sci, do a different course. You don't do CS to learn how to program.

If your CS course is heavily Java based, don't waste your time. Just look at Java and all the DegreeFactory.getDegree() incompetants. Masters? PhDs? Useless. These guys rely on buzzwords, hype, overpriced consultants and simply copying to get through.

This post was brought to you by the interface Serializable, which for some retarded reason implements no methods.

FROM THE OTHER SIDE!

say >>1, can I have fries with that?

>>16
But implementing Serializable on things is fun.  It gives you a sense of satisfaction that lasts for as long as you don't think about the fact that you're not really accomplishing anything.  It's knock on wood.

>>19
Implement serializable closures.

CS guy here.  Beware the people telling you to get an IT/IS degree.  HR has the relatively dim idea that CS can apply to any part of the IT/IS spectrum (true, but same can be said of IT/IS degree holders).  On the other hand, CS will force you to do some thinking and learn concepts that IT/IS people may never learn, and you can see some real-world benefit from this (e.g. I understand how indexes are implemented in DB2 and can pick them effectively, but my 10+ year veteran coworker does not, although his reasoning skills relational-wise are sharp as hell).

>>16
Serializable denotes that a class is safe to persist.  That's why it has no methods.  Back when it was created, Java did not have annotations.

The reason for its existence is simple; some things (e.g. system resources) cannot be persisted.  For example, a file handle, a network socket, etc.  Their state cannot be encoded and later decoded and still work just as before.

I'll tell the truth, I can't wait for CS 101 and Software Engineering 101 guys to clear out of /prog/.

>>21
Their state cannot be encoded and later decoded and still work just as before.
They can if you remove the effects of the implicit World-state.

How about computer systems engeering?

Its a mix of electronics and programming and Im worried that I wont be considered seriously for either,,,,

Whenever i see a thread like this, i always give the same advice: programming is a dead profession. all the jobs are outsourced to indians.
（　≖‿≖） i like to think that it thins the competition for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfIMy-ebZRk