There was a time when I was GLAD javascript was gettin used less and less as a core script langugage. It was just so darn confusing and it was so browser dependent. But it seems these new fangled AJAX and the hype around it is gonna make it ever so popular again. AJAX isnt even new but merely a collection of exisitng technologies yet the marketing put them like its sum new toy.
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Anonymous2006-02-18 17:39
AJAX on the frontend is neat, just like LAMP is neat on the backend; but I'd hate my life if the only language available for web programming was php. Thankfully we have plenty of alternatives; Perl, Python (ew), Ruby, others. I think in time we'll see alternatives for the J in AJAX. In the meantime we can avoid having to use this sucky language as much as possible by having libraries in our favourite web programming language to generate js code automatically.
You're right, it's not new, but until recently it wasn't well understood how to use these technologies to make cooler web apps. Giving a name to something is an important step towards making it possible to communicate meaningfully about it. This, incidentally, is why Design Patterns was so popular; it didn't bring anything new to the table, it just gave names to things, which enabled people to think and talk about them.
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Anonymous2006-02-19 4:19
there will come a day where we no longer program but merely specify what we need. >>2
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Anonymous2006-02-19 7:15
>>3
Er, no. A program is a specification of what you need. You try to make it so that you can write programs in English, all you get is COBOL.
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Anonymous2006-02-20 6:13
>>1
Compatibility issues are mainly because of MSIE. The sooner we kill it, the better. Let's just use one of its many exploits to run a script on users' computers that silently:
1. Installs Firefox in the language MSIE is in
2. Installs a MSIE theme so that it looks like MSIE
3. Hacks Firefox to display "Internet Explorer" instead
4. Sets Firefox as the default browser
5. Hijacks all shortcuts pointing to MSIE to point to Firefox
Stupid users using MSIE are too stupid to notice the change anyways.
>>2
I doubt there will be many alternatives to JavaScript, because they run in the client's end, and you don't want clients to install a lot of software to run web applications, it'd defeat the purpose of web applications.
I agree that one should have more choices though. In particular, I'll take PHP and Python over Perl and Ruby, and the only way for both of us to be happy is to support all four. But I'm afraid both of us will have to cope with JavaScript for the client's end.
>>3
Uh... specifying what we need = programming. We'll only shift towards higher level specification.
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Anonymous2006-02-22 21:55
Newsflash: AJAX is a fucking stupid name made up by some guy to pimp is web shop. It only caught on because he didn't bother to mention in his article that he made up the word, and the blogosewer thought it was already an established word, they took a few day to notice he actually made up the word, then they went back to their self-congratulary wanking.
Actual name of the technology is Javascript, using XMLHttpRequest.
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Anonymous2006-02-23 10:00
>>4
I wouldn't say that a prodecure of how to make something is the same as a description of that something from which you can derive an appropriate procedure.
You might argue that functional programming languages are closer to a specification of what you need, but the procedure is still built into the specification at some point.
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Anonymous2006-02-24 5:06
I started messing with Ruby on Rails about a month ago. AJAX is nifty enough in config screens and when making new blog entries, but I definitely don't want to shove JavaScript down a user's throat and then have my site be broken if he's got it disabled. I hadn't heard of AJAX until I met with RoR.
At some point I became one of those fags who masturbate over CSS and <div> tags, and gives a shit about accessibility.
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Anonymous2006-02-24 7:17
>>8
No serious web developer actually uses more than one or at most two divs per page, and that is just in the extreme cases.
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Anonymous2006-02-24 10:59
>>9
No serious web developer actually care about this semantic stuff nerdery when you make a better job in terms of maintainability, accessibility and immediate productivity when you don't try to transform markup created for writing research papers into something useful for real-world websights.
Mixing religion and technology is bad for business.
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Anonymous2006-02-24 16:16
>>10
I did not mean "professional" when I said serious. "Professional" web developers write crap, anyone that is a "professional" can only produce pure refined crap, nothing else. There are few exceptions. By serious, I mean the alphageeks.
"Professional" web developers write crap, anyone that is a "professional" can only produce pure refined crap, nothing else.
Yeah, I know, only the amateurs are doing good work, what a sad situation. You should never use tables, use lists for everything that is somewhat a list (just use a little bit of CSS to transform them into something that doesn't look anything like a list if required), define acronyms and abbreviations using the appropriate tags, validate, use XHTML 1.0 strict whenever possible, and serve your pages with the proper application/xml+xhtml mime format (except for MSIE), then you are just some moron "professional" who makes his pages in dreamweaver and is too dumb to edit his code manually, and still use font tags and spacer.gif
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Anonymous2006-03-10 0:11
I've coded tons of real ajax. The funny thing is that a lot of people forget the Asyncronous part of Ajax, that is what lets the server send stuff whenever it wants to update the screens of the clients. Currently writing a game with a 7th generation ajax library, and it is getting really groovy.
Using some of the helper scripts available help tons with making javascript a tolerable language, and originally it was javascripts flexibility which turned me to languages such as Python.
Oh and that game will hopefully make a furore; I am pretty sure the 4chan crowd is gonna like it : D
Link please. Supposedly, w4ch is going the way of the dinosaurs.
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Anonymous2006-03-10 9:38
Sorry, I'll keep it private till I deploy it. Sorry, but I'm using MochiKit, nevow/athena and Twisted. The game will get interesting in about a month or so.
No it isn't. Use a framework which uses AJAX widgets, not just HTML widgets. You need something like tapestry where you don't write any javascript at all, YOU PLACE AND IMPLEMENT WIDGETS. Sadly Ruby on Rails (being the shit eating POS it is) lacks this brilliant idea of the AJAX Widgets, Instead they give you ways
of sticking code onto boring HTML forms.
So instead of javascript and html, you code with widgets.
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Anonymous2006-03-19 12:29
>>24
I consider that a step backward. Widget toolkits are a pain in the fucking arse.
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Anonymous2006-03-19 14:21
So instead of javascript and html, you code with widgets.
Widgets? WIDGETS?
FYI, I had to do some development in Zope3. Yeah, it's full of widgets. I hated it. I'm sure it's useful somewhere, but it's a fucking pain in the ass.
Please bend over so I can sodomize you now, venting my fury on your flabby flesh.
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Anonymous2007-11-01 14:00
A good widget toolkit is fine, and very much helps in programming the UI. Unfortunately, most of the ones I've encountered for the web are piss poor.
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Anonymous2007-11-01 14:00
A good widget toolkit is fine, and very much helps in programming the UI. Unfortunately, most of the ones I've encountered for the web are piss poor.
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Anonymous2007-11-01 14:11
try prado framework, it looks overloaden, but if you use is wisely and on mid projects it has nearly everthing you need. And is not overloaden at the end ;)
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Anonymous2007-11-01 14:48
Don't talk about "widgets" like the term actually means something without further context.
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Anonymous2007-11-01 16:49
<div>'s and CSS are easier, and faster to code then that archaic <table> markup anyway.
This thread has ended peacefully. But you can't tuna fish
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