I enjoy programming. I actually want to make a career out of it. I'm 25 years old and out of college[cs degree], I have had a couple of temp projects and done some websites / etc - but didn't have a steady job in programming. Now I'm a purchasing a purchasing agent and I feel like my lifelong love of computers is slipping away from me. I go home everyday and I'm drained of energy dealing with stupid bullshit from my suppliers who usually lie/lose my faxes etc (frustrating). Anyways, where I'm going with this is, are there any entry level jobs out there these days. Or even free and interesting work (ie projects - telecommuting) I can do for charities. Thanks in advance for your advice.
- A fellow 4chan lurker
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Anonymous2004-12-24 11:14
Well I fail at the grammar, make this edit s/purchasing a purchasing/purchasing
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Anonymous2004-12-24 17:08
If you want free and interesting then try open source.
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Anonymous2004-12-24 17:31
Take up freelance jobs, or or yeah, you could also do open source.
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Fnordulicious2004-12-24 17:31
Look around for nonprofits in your area whose ideals you support and offer your services to help them fix computer problems, build/integrate new software, etc. Nonprofits have little money for infrastructure, use crufty old systems that are always on the edge of breaking, and have good connections. If you start with them you can build a successful consulting business, and helping nonprofits gives you a special sense of supporting your community.
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Anonymous2004-12-24 17:32
I just can't do C++ - I find it so so hard.
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Fnordulicious2004-12-24 17:34
By all means avoid as much as possible being put into a maintenance job. You *don't* want to have to fix someone else's old broken code, particularly when the job has a six month turnover and the app has been around for ten or fifteen years. Avoid avoid avoid!!! Get work in a position where you can write original software, or at the least integrate stuff together. Doing maintenance will suck the soul out of your body and run it through a cosmic meat grinder, and the hole in your psyche will be filled with rat turds and dead insects.
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Anonymous2004-12-24 17:44 (sage)
Take up freelance or part time jobs and go back to school to pick up a second degree or certificate type thing -- If you can apply your programming skills to a different field that you also enjoy, I bet you could find some rewarding work.
You don't have to master C++ and you certainly don't have to _like_ it, but you ought to at least figure it out. You'll be a better programmer after you've been exposed to the concepts of a few different languages.
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Anonymous2004-12-24 18:02
By the way, shouldn't this be on the... programming board?
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Anonymous2004-12-24 18:03
i didn't see it - my apologies. fyi, my skillset is mainly perl and java. but i can write C++ code if needed. just not expert in that.
Just takes such a long time to get even the most basic oncept written onto a screen; I can do html pretty well,mamybe dabble a bit of php, but for them it's a lot easier to 'visualise' when you're coding. Like I said, I just suck at C++
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2004-12-24 19:19(capped)
The >> anchors are broken because thread moving doesn't work well yet, sorry :(
For those of you trying to learn C++, don't please. It's evil. You'd be much better off learning to use C for real. Once you've mastered C, and the entertaining intricacies of function pointers and pointer arithmetic, among other pursuits, then you can study OO. You'll find that for learning OO, good language models include Java and one of the atypical languages like OCaml or Common Lisp (ie CLOS). Then maybe think about studying C++. You shouldn't learn C++ first because it's basically a pile of ugly kluges and warts built out of a preprocessor on top of C which masquerades as a real language. Since C++ is so idiosyncratic and contains such nasty mistakes as templates to get around deficiencies in the lack of design and forethought, anyone trying to learn C++ without the benefit of having used both low level and OO languages is bound to lose, and lose big.
Quite frankly, the world would be a much better place if the 'fixed' parts of C++ were grafted back into C and then C++ consigned to the skip. This is actually what is gradually being done in the improvements to ANSI C, such as with the last standard version of C99.
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Fnordulicious2004-12-26 16:00
BTW Haskell is another good language to study different varieties of OO with. Don't be suckered into the mistaken belief that Java encompasses all you need to know about OO. In particular, Java worshippers never learn that many of their vaunted 'patterns' are actually redundant at best in other, better designed OO languages. In fact, the whole concept of 'pattern' is a signal that something is missing in your language, since you have to keep track of it in conceptual rather than programmatical terms. A good OO language can represent patterns directly in the language without needing to abstract away from it. Example is the Lisp macro language combined with class generators for CLOS classes and MOP metaclasses.
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Anonymous2004-12-26 22:11 (sage)
I think you're being excessively harsh to C++. I can always truck out the tried-and-true argument: "If it's really that bad, why are so many coders using it?"
(Which is an interesting question. There are so many nice languages out there that never reached limelight...)
C++ has its warts, but it's fast. It's not that complicated either, if you don't delve too deeply. And claiming that C++ had a lack of design and forethought is simply ignorant. You need only read some archives to realize that a lot of thought went into each design decision.
That said, I don't like C++ either. If you start digging in the guts of the language it becomes a nightmare. I doubt there's anyone who has ever fully mastered C++.
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soad2004-12-27 20:55
i dislike c++, its crap. i began learning it a while back and stopped and decided to continue my focus on just plain C (which can do OO)
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Random Anonymous Fucktard2004-12-27 23:50
C cannot do OO. Don't be daft. If C can do OO, so can assembly.
Yes, yes, we all know you can pull trickery with pointers. The point is you shouldn't have to. You're attempting to pile OO as a hack on top of procedural. If you really want to to have an OO C, try Objective-C instead.
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whaaa2004-12-28 0:51
i know you shoudnt have to (ans assembler can as well) but face the fact C++ is just crap, i mean look at the i/o its rediculous.. C is a far better language hands down.
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Random Anonymous Fucktard2004-12-28 1:36 (sage)
No, it's not, and there's a simple reason why: C is strict subset of C++ (although not entirely anymore due to C99). So, by definition, anything you can do in C you can do exactly the same in C++. Not everything you can do in C++ can easily be done in C.
Having said that, I agree that iostream is a mess. If there's one part of C++ I detest it's that. But C++ isn't just iostream, you can use printf() & co just as well.
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Fnordulicious2004-12-28 2:49
>>21 Ahem, C++ didn't have that much forethought put into it. I've read Stroustrup's books and his HOPL-II paper on C++ and he's said over and over that after the first few iterations he was basically just adding features as he thought of them, then hacking around with preprocessor crud to make them work. The original idea of a class system built into C was well considered, and that shows. But beyond that everything else was pretty much a hack.
C++ is insanely complicated. You can write in a subset language of C++ that isn't complicated if you so wish, which is what most C++ programmers do. But C++ is overall one of the most complex languages in terms of how poorly integrated all of its different features and capabilities are, and the numerous ways of doing things. It doesn't score up at the Perl level, but few programming languages can hold a candle to that level of badness anyway. Maybe TECO and PL/I maybe.
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Fnordulicious2004-12-28 2:50
>>22 ITWYM is that you can do OO in C, a la the awful OO miscarriage that is used in X11 and friends.
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Fnordulicious2004-12-28 2:53
>>25 You should say that C++ is a complete superset of C, which implies that it contains all of C and more. That's a more accurate way of describing it, IMNSHO.
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Random Anonymous Fucktard2004-12-28 5:25
Logically equivalent, but I agree the connotation of superset is a better one.
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Anonymous2005-02-05 22:57
If you want a realistic, practical, down-to-Earth tip, forget about OO, don't waste your time on that unless you're getting paid. No wonder how most commercial projects are OO because "OO=good" in business, while most free time projects are not OO because nobody who knows wants to waste his/her time.
I find OO to be very useful but then, I stick to Python whenever I want OO. (In other words, I agree that OO in C++ is a mess and that Java falls short.)
Then again, when I'm using Python I tend to mix and match programming paradigms on the fly so my code is a mixture of Object-Oriented, Procedural, and Python's Functional constructs.
>>33
you havent realised how utterly shit python is yet, though...
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Anonymous2007-06-21 21:37 ID:KsQMP4Xj
>>33
C++ would be a better language if it offered direct support for multiple dispatching, something along the lines:
multi (o, o2, ...) { (o (sibling), o2 (sibling) : ... ;) for each sibling pair } (epsilon | member | base member) id;
Then id has the right type and function pointer you want, and can be called: id(*this, o, o2, ...);
Don't give yourself credit for this idea. IT'S MINE!
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Anonymous2007-06-21 23:52 ID:izDUTrbK
>>36,37
Hey dickfags look at the date of the post.
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Anonymous2007-06-22 2:54 ID:60sk2eyz
>>38
yeah i am >>37 and dont fuckin do that fuckass dissing me bullshit i9ts fuckin rude, uncalled for and all that and im disgusted with thelack of morals and discipline on this site i remember back in the good old days when you knew everyone and you could take a troll down the forums without having to worry about who is going to flame you and people that are just out to get a cheap fuckin laugh. You could really feel safe back then not like now where no matter what you do and how you act your feelings will be hurt and self esteem lost.
Please try to be nicer to me in the future as I will be reporting this incident to the proper authorites and the administration will be left to deal with the fallout of this dark day in 4chan history
Ok guys this the bumping of old threads are becoming real dumb and stuff. I think we are at /comp/ can not do it so much becos its is real stuopid and dumn. If moar people are being dumnb then i think the site admins will stop annying people getting in here as it are realy dumb and i do'nt like it, ok? So guys you just neede to stop, and look at waht you are doine becauz its not funy and its real dumb and im call the admins to stop stewpid people doing it all the times. It is just dumb. Why you are'nt stoping it now is so anoying and stuped that ill have to contact the site or else it will keepe on hapining and its not good for the comunity on the intrernets becaze its real anoying and dumn and it makes them stewpide and shit, and they wo'nt be happy and its real dumb ok? So my advise is stop spaming shit and making old dumn posts new again at the top of page in \comp\ or ill be geting you in shit and shit.
Thank you for taking my seriously its a real consirn of mine that the intanrets are making dumber and i are going to stoping it rite now! So pleze cume and halp me and togetha we will fix the intrnet and making it good.
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Anonymous2007-06-22 14:19 ID:VBh7grxJ
>>38 >>39
How dare you fail to acknowledge my brilliance! Nails shall rain down up you!
>>66
In that case you will need to convert your markdown text into BBCODE for input(unless your board software uses markdown as input handler) or HTML for display(unless your browser parses markdown script syntax),
defeating any purpose of compilation.
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