Revolution

could it happen?

my friend, it will happen because we are not the type of animal that likes to be controlled.

Shitty, pointless thread

could it happen?

It depends on what type of revolution we are talking about.  Revolution is an overthrow of an existing system.  Who exactly would be doing the overthrowing in your revolution?  What would the new system look like (fascism, socialims, libertarianism, monarchy???)

I think a revolution in the US would have to be fast and VERY widely supported, otherwise it would have a high probability of turning into an anarchic multi-sided civil war.  Despite the two party system, the US is not really divided between two clear groups.  There are many different groups with many different agendas and ideas of how things should be.  The system needs to be changed from within the existing framework.

>I think a revolution in the US would have to be fast and VERY widely supported,

Maybe by libfags. Honestly, I think we are headed to a dictatorship. We're like Rome now.

When socialism is dead, don't start tripping on me and calling me "McCarthyist" because I don't mean the red terror or Glenn Beck or whatever, I mean the utopian idea that you can collectivize things with no side effects whatsoever and that collectivizing shit is always better than other systems of organization. Even people don't literally say this they certainly act as though they do beyond all reason or logic.

You see socialism is an obsolete ideology that actually reduces the consciousness of the masses, it assumes that the elite are an aristocracy when in fact they are a bureaucracy. Their power comes from manipulating the political machine needed for millions of educated middle classes to cooperate with each other, handing special privileges to corporations, turning our schools, hospitals, roads and other government services into rackets, basically it's highly organized and well engrained corruption. When the middle class are socialist they place excessive trust in the bureaucracy and believe that the very individual freedoms needed to prevent corruption are responsible for the problems cause by corruption.

I hope I cleared that up for you.

that collectivizing shit is always better than other systems of organization.
Strawman. This is the problem with talking to conservatives about socialism. Nobody (ok almost nobody) actually thinks this. There are just some things that better off collectivized.

>>8
That's why I said.
People who don't literally say this certainly act as though they do beyond all reason or logic.

It's not a strawman if they're lying and their intention really is to collectivize as much as they can. In the modern world the monopoly over force is controlled by a bureaucracy, the bureaucrats want to expand the power of the bureaucracy beyond what is reasonable and they know "the people" will stop them unless they believe it benefits them, this really isn't all that far fetched.

Why are you doing this? I've given you the answer you were looking for. You shouldn't be quibbling over semantics, you should be accepting that this is definitely a force at play and looking into it's extent and what key organizations and individuals are involved in it in your country. I'm not trying to condescend or patronize you, I'm sure you already realized that "people lie a lot in politics" but when you fail to employ this basic knowledge what am I supposed to think?

People who don't literally say this certainly act as though they do beyond all reason or logic.
That's still a disengenuous way to argue. I could just as easily say that conservatives act as though they want to round up all the atheists and homosexuals into camps even if most don't explicitly say it.

It's not a strawman if they're lying...
Congratulations. You've just crossed the border into conspiracy theory territory. You can twist anything around now and make any point you like!

I don't think most people here realize what the truth of the matter is.

Unless the military joins the rebellion, there can be no modern rebellion against a first world nation.

You could have terrorists, but you cannot win a military confrontation. I don't care how many guys with AK-47's you have, look at Afghanistan and Iraq. That's what would happen.

Drones 30,000 feet in the air putting a missile through a front door, strategic bombing, radar proof fighters, GPS tracking, we're well past the point where people can win against modern tech with basic weaponry. Most people are not ready to operate on the opposite side of asymmetrical warfare, and what it would require.

>>11

I agree, when I imagine a reasonably successful revolution at home (the US) I imagine a situation where at least half of the military either joins in the revolution or decides that they don't care and go home (there are historical examples of things like this happeing).  Otherwise the revolution would be rebels and terrorists that can cause significant problems but never gain a total victory.  Of course, if this rebel group is large and motivated then it would still be extremely difficult for the military to completely defeat it also (like in Afghanistan).

>>8
I think conservatives understand the point and difference but I think you're desperate to make an assumption about them.

>>13
Fair enough. I should have said that's the problem with some conservatives.

I want a mix of National Socialism,and classical conservatism

I want a God Emperor, not a weak ass tax and spend negro. Kill the xeno scum!

The Declaration of Desperation

When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a People to occupy the streets of wealth and to assemble on the lawn of power, a decent respect to the opinions of humankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the demonstration.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all People are equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Peoples, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,–That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed will dictate that Governments long established should not change for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that people are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to sacrifice their Liberty, their Security, and their pursuit of Happiness for the benefit of a select few, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to set aside daily concerns and demonstrate their grievances, and to demand, and to ensure, the renewal of their Government, which only then may provide sufficient Guard for their Future. –Such has been the patient sufferance of the American People; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their System of Government. The history of the present Government and Social Order is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, constant deception, corruption, and cronyism, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Plutocracy over this Nation. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

The Supreme Court has consistently ruled against the Rights of Citizens in favor of the rights of corporations.

The Supreme Court has given so-called “citizenship” to corporations.

The Supreme Court has removed all restraints from the corrupting influence of private and corporate wealth in the Political Process, thus allowing a select group of persons and corporations to buy Politicians and hold near total control over the domestic and foreign policies of Government.

The Congress has consistently failed to act in the interest of the Nation.

The Congress now acts only in the interests of the wealthiest persons and corporations.

The Congress has enabled the consolidation of Mass Media.

The Congress has deregulated the financial sector, thus precipitating the Great Recession and putting the Nation in danger of a second Great Depression.

The Congress has failed to respond to the Great Recession with substantial financial regulation reform.

The Congress allows former Government Officials to find employment in the industries they once regulated.

The Congress gave billions of dollars to the very Financial Institutions which caused the Great Recession, without requiring any reform of those institutions.

The Congress has repeatedly and significantly lowered tax rates for the wealthiest persons and corporations.

The Congress has enabled the gross redistribution of wealth into the hands of the top 1%.

The Congress has failed to take the necessary measures to reinvigorate the national economy.

The Congress has failed to take any substantial measures to preserve the Middle Class, or to help the Lower Class.

The Congress has allowed the public education system to deteriorate and to fail to adequately prepare Students for employment and their Duties as Citizens.

The Congress has so neglected higher education that Students must endure usury and indenture themselves for education.

The President is either incapable or unwilling to lead:

He neglected to reform financial regulations when he first came into office and had sufficient political capital.

The Criminals of Wall Street have not been arrested, tried, and imprisoned for perpetrating the Fraud which so devastated the world economy and wreaked such havoc on the lives of Americans.

Corporations plunder Our seas, ravage Our coasts,  burn Our towns, and destroy the lives of Our People, without fear of commensurate retribution.

The Press fails to address the real issues.

The Press neglects even the most basic investigative journalism.

The Press propagates trivial distractions which deflect attention from the real issues.

The Press is guilty of aiding and abetting Politicians in the deception and manipulation of the American People.

The Press is now little more than the propaganda network of the wealthiest persons and the largest corporations.

The top 1% possesses 40% of America’s wealth.

156 million Americans, half the Nation, posses 2.5% of America’s wealth.

3.5 million Americans are homeless.

14 million Americans do not have jobs.

46.2 million Americans endure lives of poverty.

52 million Americans go hungry.

A Government, whose character thus condemns millions of men, women, and children to lives of desperate poverty and unwarranted hunger, while ordaining a wealthy few to live lives of unprecedented opulence, is unfit to be government of any people.

In every stage of these Injustices We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury:

We have not been wanting in Our observation of Our Representatives. We have condemned them from time to time for their failures to represent Our Interests, but Our voice remains unheeded. The Politicians reserve no lie to garner Our votes. They shamelessly neglect their campaign promises, and only realize those favors promised for the highest bribe. They have proven themselves unworthy of Our confidence. Worthy candidates cannot be heard over the babbling voices of those Whores of Wall Street and their incestuous bride, the Press. The two-party political system is broken: We no longer enjoy the luxury of electing representatives who represent Our Common Interests and Values, and are now resigned to just vote against those Politicians We most fear. The Political Process is no longer responsive to Our Will. For the Politicians have formed to themselves an interest separate from the Interest of their Constituents. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity of nonviolent direct action, and hold them, as We held their royal forbearer, in contempt.

We, therefore, the People of the United States of America, Assembled, in General Outrage, appealing to the supreme judgement of the world for the rectitude of Our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of this Nation and its Founding Principles, solemnly publish and declare, That these United States must be, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent of Corruption, of Greed, of gross Inequality, and that Government must cease to be a Plutocracy; and that We, as the Citizens of these United States, reaffirm Our Sovereign Right and Power to consent to Government, and to revoke Our consent; and We here resolve that this Nation will have a new birth of Democracy–and that government of the People, by the People, for the People, shall again prevail across the earth. — And for the support of this Declaration, We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor.

We are the 99%.

>Citizenship to corporations
You know that this was done because the only alternative was hauling your grandma, and everyone else who owns even one share of Amalgamated Lint stock as part of a retirement plan, into court whenever there was legal action of any kind against Amalgamated Lint, right?