debt ceiling

it really boggles my mind that something like 60% of polled americans are opposed to raiseing the debt ceiling, and also that a plurality of voters view obama as to blame for this debt ceiling crisis.

so i am curious not so much as to your opinion on what is going to happen, but as to your opinion on how the american people, or people across the world will percive it? do you think that americans are really stupid enough to fall for the republicans destroying the economy to make obama look bad?

>>76
The wars actually are a drop in the bucket. It's the entitlements that are sinking the boat. The wars didn't help. In the end, the government has become massive in size and scope. Our economy is shrinking while the government is growing infinitely.

Anyone who tries to address the problem gets attacked as a right-wing terrorist.

I don't get why you guys even have a debt ceiling in the first place.  As far as I'm aware, everywhere else just issues bonds, and their debt is limited by the market's willingness to buy them.

Also
>taxes high
>top marginal rate 37%

My money's on this situation being resolves in the same stupid way as every other stand-off with the current Republican grouping - the government will cave into their demands *again*.  Personally I'd have preferred Obama to simply raise the ceiling to some stupid figure by EO and let people fight it out in the courts after the fact meanwhile the government can actually get on with fixing things.

>>81
>wars
>single biggest increase in expenditure in the Bush years
>drop in the bucket
Sure is derp in here

News coming through now.  By the looks of the limited information on the deal we've got so far, it appears that what's happened is that the Democrats have fucking bottled it AGAIN, and given the Republicans almost everything they wanted, including the deal ending before the election, and reducing the numbers involved to $1tr, even though the Democratic proposal would have meant MORE cuts, which is what the Republicans wanted in the first place.

Fucking idiots.

Republicans and Tea Party fags are completely opposed to any taxes, social security, and paying the troops. They want everything to be controlled by private monopolies who are accountable to nobody. Blame them, not the Democrats.

30% flat tax for people over poverty level.
End wars and downsize military to a domestic defense force.
Tax religion.
End corporate socialism, especially bailouts.
????
Profit.

>>86

Not profit, but you could go down to a 20% flat tax, probably.

>>40
I never elected Bush. The American people don't even technically elect our presidents. Thanks for the vitriol though.

I want to erase our debt and create an emergency fund. And buy China.

>>86
30% flat tax for people over poverty level
Partial agreement, the 30% sum is a bit arbitrary though I agree with the idea that some people shouldn't be taxed, if you're going to put that much effort into enforcing minimum wage, benefits and welfare it doesn't make sense to then tax them. It's like digging a hole and filling it in again.

End wars and downsize military to a domestic defense force
Partial agreement, we don't need 20 aircraft carriers but pacifism is for retards.

Tax religion
Partial. Only regular taxes everyone else has to pay and they should be treated like a business if they charge a fee to enter the place of worship. Any charity they conduct should be tax deductible.

End corporate socialism, especially bailouts
100% agreement. Enough said.

????
?

Profit.
Nothing wrong with a bit of profit on the side.

>>90
nothing wrong with a bit of profit on the side.

I beg to differ. There may be a lot wrong with it.

>>90
|Nothing wrong with a bit of profit on the side.

According to the liberal progressives, you just committed an act of terrorism, racism and stealing from the poor somehow at the same time by saying that.

The profit thing was just a joke. Somehow people read "politics" but think "invitation to jackassery."

>>90


i disagree with the idea of taxing people who are at 110% of the poverty level the same as people who are 10,000% above the poverty level.

i agree that people whoa re in poverty should not be taxes, however, i think the poverty level should be raised.

for example, i made something like 25 last year, and had to pay taxes, i think i should legally be poor.

>>93
joke
DUH

>>92
According to the liberal progressives, you just committed an act of terrorism, racism and stealing from the poor somehow at the same time by saying that.
[rem]
liberal progressives
What exactly is a "liberal progressive"? A social democrat? A Green Party voter? A democratic socialist? If you're thinking of the typical Democratic Party voter, that more often than not doesn't apply. The Democratic Party (minus a few actual leftists) is generally a center-right party (when scaled on a sane left-right political scale).

>>96
A liberal progressive is a liberal who claims to be a 'progressive' because the word liberal has slowly become a dirty word over the years. They imply that they are going forward mentally somehow, and as such, are always right and never wrong...because they are progressive. In other words, you can't disagree with them because you're admitting you want to live in the dark ages or something like that. I'm not making this up.

Please note, that the literal meanings of the terms have little to do with the political realities of the groups and sub-groups they represent.

The Democrats are to the left. The Blue Dogs center left. Liberals are the far left. Obama isn't anything other than an empty suit surrounded by a Chicago born political machine that is corrupt beyond human imagination. He's a political chameleon that will do whatever gets him the votes and power. I stopped caring when I realized he was Bush 2.0.

>>94

I agree in theory, but in practice, trying to make a taxation more progressive usually results in smart accounting finding loopholes for the superrich. How about we remove the need for accountants and lawyers to pay taxes?

Also, we're dealing with percentages, not amounts. Perhaps raise the poverty level to account for inflation

>>97
A liberal progressive is a liberal who claims to be a 'progressive' because the word liberal has slowly become a dirty word over the years. They imply that they are going forward mentally somehow, and as such, are always right and never wrong...because they are progressive. In other words, you can't disagree with them because you're admitting you want to live in the dark ages or something like that. I'm not making this up.
You have a source to back this up?
Please note, that the literal meanings of the terms have little to do with the political realities of the groups and sub-groups they represent.
Okay.
The Democrats are to the left. The Blue Dogs center left. Liberals are the far left.
In the shitty American left-right political spectrum that makes absolutely no sense to the rest of the planet, yes. In reality, the majority of the Democratic Party is center-right, as I mentioned before, it's largely a right-wing party. You do have your exceptions, mostly notably Dennis Kucinich, who would be a social democrat in most European countries, and Bernie Sanders, the senator from Vermont is also an actual leftist and there are probably a few members who are center at best.
Obama isn't anything other than an empty suit surrounded by a Chicago born political machine that is corrupt beyond human imagination. He's a political chameleon that will do whatever gets him the votes and power.
Sounds a lot like your typical right-wing politician.
I stopped caring when I realized he was Bush 2.0
Agreed. I'll probably end up voting third party come 2012 and the GOP isn't a fucking option by any stretch.

|Sounds a lot like your typical right-wing politician.

And they get flushed out every few years because of that. Democrats get rewarded for doing the same, but this is politics. The Republican party is pretty crappy right now. The Tea party is disorganized but slowly scaring the the fuck out of the old Republican guard. Democrats can't seem to fix anything without making everything even worse. Ron Paul is still a joke.

Also, Liberals = Left. Republicans = Right. Independents = Center. Europe has a completely different type of political spectrum.

Europe has a completely different type of political spectrum.
Which is what I go by since it's also a much more accurate one. When you think in terms that both the Democrats and GOP are right-wing, it's no wonder why that for the large part, they're both shit parties. Also, Independent is almost just as meaningless an affiliation as "Tea Party" is. So-called "Independents" are just Democrats who lean centrist to center-left (not many out there, of course).

>>100
The Republican party is pretty crappy right now.
When have they haven't been? It's been pretty evident since the "Southern Strategy" days and possibly a decade or two prior.

>>91
>>92
>>93
If there is a lot wrong with it the good ultimately outweighs the bad. Take one look at this Milton Friedman video, there is something complete and final about his response, as though he was allowing the presenter to lift up the nirvana fallacy only so he could get a clean shot.

youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

This is what liberals fail to understand. The drive for profit, to quantify the real world so we can maximize the use of our intelligence in managing economic activity, without it we would not be able to lower costs, maximimize resource usage, intensify exploitation and optimize efficiency and not just to produce higher quality/quantity goods and services but also to reveal the value of things that we did not see and make things possible we could not have dreamed of before.
>>94
Ideally people should pay for what they use from the government, since the poorest in society don't owe the government anything I guess that makes sense.

>>98
Tax loopholes are only a problem if you insist on legislating in linear time.  UK master race doesn't worry about tax loopholes, because they can just erase the loophole from history.  "This amendment is treated as always having had effect."

nigger president = bad idea

>>105
I never thought much about it at first until well into his tenure, I found myself saying "he's nigger rigging the economy" and it was then I really started taking notice of his swarthy complexion. It seems self-evident to me.

>>103
Milton Friedman does a pretty good job of destroying logical fallacies of the Left. We need more people like that right now.

>>103

Damn this guys good

>>108
Did he right books? I'll have to research this guy.

>>98
God damn it how can you be so stupid.

Now >>73 is spot on!

>>45
EAT MY DICK FAG!

>>109
write*

You should read more books.

I think we call all agree that the Left has failed us on the economy. The "spend your way out of debt" theory isn't holding much water with the tax payers.

Milton Friedman had it right.

>>112

Uh no we can't all agree on that because it's not true.

“Excuse me, Mr. Nick!” It was Pearl Fey. She looked very small behind the tall oak defendant’s stand.Phoenix heard Franziska von Karma, the prosecutor, babbling something about her perfection, and decided that he could spare his attention. “What is it, Pearls?” He whispered out of the corner of his mouth. The girl stared up at him with her large brown eyes. Her silky brown hair was braided into two circles behind her head that bounced up and down when she was surprised or excited. And to top it off she wore the standard light purple channeler’s robe with a pink sash, only in miniature. “Mr. Nick, I have to go potty, bad!” “I’m sorry, Pearls, but you’ll have to hold it a little longer. The judge doesn’t look ready to call a recess yet.” “Oh…” “Don’t worry, we’ll get you to a bathroom. Just hang in there, okay?” “Okay!” said Pearl, breaking into a grin. Phoenix couldn’t help but smile back. He didn’t like kids, but Pearl never caused any trouble. “Mr. Wright! I would advise you to pay attention to your own client’s trial!” “Y-yes, your honor!” Phoenix stammered. The judge continued. “Ms. Von Karma was just about to call the next witness to the stand…” It was Lotta Hart, the nosy photographer who almost always managed to show up in time to witness the crime scene. They began the cross examination. Phoenix listened carefully to the entire testimony, and Pearl waited patiently. He kept reviewing all the evidence, looking frantically for contradictions, but the story seemed airtight. He could tell the judge was getting impatient, and his window of opportunity was closing. This looked like it could be the end… “Need some help?” A familiar voice came from right next to him, and Phoenix glanced over in astonishment. “Pearls? What…” His heart almost stopped. There stood Mia Fey, his dead mentor. He’d always had something of a crush on her, and now she looked more beautiful than ever before. Now, her hair was brown, and braided up in the back just like Pearl’s. He realized that the young spirit medium must be channeling Mia. “Hmmm…these clothes are a little small though.” Phoenix blushed as he realized just how short the eight-year-old’s skirt was on the fully grown Mia. It barely covered her crotch! And now Mia, who had always had a large bust, was quite literally almost popping out of the minuscule channeling robes. She must have noticed Phoenix staring. “Get it together, Phoenix! You’ve got a case to win!” He nodded and turned back to the witness stand. Mia continued. “Now, start trying to press the witness for-urk!” She suddenly felt an intense pressure in her abdomen. That little girl was working on quite a load! “Are you okay, Mia?” “Y-yeah…I’m fine…” she reassured him, although she was beginning to sweat. I’m not sure how much longer I can hold it. “Ms. Hart, isn’t it true you took more than one photo of the crime scene?” “Well, yeah! You reckon I’d let a story this big go by with just one pitcher to show for it?” “Would you mind presenting those additional pictures to the court?” “The prosecution has deemed the additional photograph to be irrelevant.” Phoenix pointed in his trademark gesture. “I think that’s for the people of this court to decide!” “I’m sorry, Ms. Von Karma, but I must agree with the defense on this – YOW!” Franziska cracked her whip viciously at the old man. “Very well! If you wish to waste this court’s time, I will present the other photo.” “Hmmm… what could this mean…?” Phoenix pored over the newly submitted picture for any discrepancies. “T-there, a contradiction! Think about the evidence you have and compare it to the picture you just got!” counseled Mia in a rather strained tone of voice. At that very moment she was forcing back an intense urge to use the bathroom by any means necessary. I’ve got to focus on the trial…she chided herself. But she could feel her concentration slipping. As her protégé raised an objection, she gripped the defendant’s stand with white knuckles. She shifted nervously in her uncomfortably tight clothing. She couldn’t really blame Phoenix for staring, after all, she was sporting some truly eye popping cleavage. “Are you really alright, chief? You don’t look so good.” Phoenix asked. He seemed genuinely concerned, as Mia’s face had blanched and she was now sweating noticeably. The air around her was beginning to waver and bend almost imperceptibly. “Don’t worry about me, you need to think of the client!” Ugh...this is the worst I’ve ever had to go in my whole life. I can feel my connection to Pearl waning… Mia quickly began to understand the bottom line: if she didn’t find relief soon, she would go back to the spirit world and leave Phoenix on his own. As the fight between Phoenix and Franziska dragged on, Mia’s eyes widened in desperation. An airy fart squeezed itself out of her, and the very tip of a hard turd emerged from between her cheeks. She needed a toilet, now. Her lips parted as an almost inaudible moan escaped them. She clutched her backside tightly and hopped up and down to distract herself. She stopped and doubled over as she farted again, louder. The sheer volume of feces inside her astounded Mia. She fought hard to hold it in, but it was a losing battle. The whole room started to narrow to tunnel vision, and the sound of Phoenix and Franziska arguing at the top of their lungs faded to a dull roar. This is it…she thought. It’s now or never. She relaxed her sphincter, and a large volume of gas escaped her. “Ohhh…” She ceased to perceive anything else in the room, except the blissful release she was feeling. She gave her body a push to help things along, and just like that she was defecating. Her eyes were closed, and beneath her slightly upturned nose her mouth was formed into an ‘O’ of pure bliss. The enormous turd that had been bothering her slid smoothly out of her rectum and rested against her panties for a moment, before another push from Mia caused them to bulge out easily with a soft crackle. The poop kept coming and began to pile into a mound. Even though everyone in the courtroom was watching Mia awkwardly, all she could feel was the warm, gooey sensation on her behind. If I had known how much pleasure you get from soiling yourself, I would have done this while I was alive! When that piece was finished, she could feel more lining up for exit. This one was wider, so she spread her legs and bent over the stand, revealing more cleavage. Her brow furrowed and she bit her lower lip out of exertion. Oh, my, this one is huge! What on earth did that little girl eat? She was so lost in concentration that Mia’s bladder released, causing a fountain of urine to cascade from between her legs. A puddle formed underneath her, splashing onto the floor. As she strained, Mia released a big fart into Pearl’s loaded panties. “Nnnnngh!” With the noise she was making, everyone in the courtroom was looking at her. “What’s going on?” “Mommy, is the lady going poo-poo?” If there was any doubt before, it was now clear that Mia was going poo-poo, as she began to push in earnest on the big lump of excrement inside her. Mia’s anus began to widen further and further, and gradually, her bowel movement began to slide out with a soft, crackling. “Nnnh…nnh…oh!” Her sphincter was stretched to its limit.Finally, the widest part passed through and began to slide easily into her heavy panties. “Ahhhhhhh…” Mia as the football shaped BM smushed at last into Pearl’s undies, which were adorned with bumblebees and flowers. The panties sagged considerably beneath her short skirt, revealing the crack of her bum, which was smeared brown. Mia stood up. Every man, woman and child in the court room was staring at her open mouthed after witnessing her display. Mia barely noticed. That was the thing about being a spirit, she thought. You don’t have to worry about the opinions of others. After a moment of silence, Mia cleared her throat. “If the court is ready, may we continue with the…oh! Ungh…mmmph…” She closed one of her eyes and grimaced. She pushed on her tummy with a slender hand and finally voided the last of her bowels. A thin log slithered out of her  and rested on top of the enormous pile in her panties. “Hang on…there’s more…” After an audible fart she grunted again, releasing a mushy mass of hot slop that coated her production. She nodded. “Your honor…?” “Well, I must say that in all my years I have never seen someone take a case so seriously."