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The Grreatt Money Trr iick

Name: Puke and Snot 2011-01-05 21:22

The Grreatt Money Trr iick
Taken from " aken from "The Ragged T The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist rousered Philanthropist" by Robert T " by Robert Tressel ressel



"Money is the real cause of poverty," said Sipho.
"Prove it," said Thandi.
"Money is the cause of poverty because it is the
device by which those who are too lazy to work are
enabled to rob the workers of the fruits of our labour."
"Prove it," repeated Thandi.
Sipho slowly folded up the piece of newspaper he
had been reading and put it into his pocket.
"All right," he replied, "I'll show you how the Great
Money Trick is worked."
Sipho opened his lunchbox and took from it two
slices of bread, but as these were not enough, he
asked that anyone who had some bread left should
give it to him. They gave him several pieces, which
he placed in a heap on a clean piece of paper, and,
having borrowed the knives they used to cut and eat
their lunches with from Nkosi, Thandi and Abendigo,
he addressed them as follows:
"These pieces of bread represent the raw materials
which exist naturally in and on the earth for the
use of all people; they were not made by any human
being, but were created for the benefit and sustenance
of all, the same as were the air and the light
of the sun."
"Now," continued Sipho, "I am a capitalist; or
rather, I represent the bosses and landlords; the
Capitalist Class. That is to say, all these raw materials
belong to me. It does not matter for our present
argument how I got possession of them: the only
thing that matters now is the admitted fact that all the
raw materials which are necessary for the production
of the necessaries of life are now the property of the
Capitalist Class. I am that class: all these raw materials
belong to me."
"Now you three represent the Working Class.
You have nothing, and for my part, although I have
these raw materials, they are of no use to me. What
I need is the things that can be made out of these
raw materials by work: but I am too lazy to work for
myself. But first I must explain that I possess something
else besides the raw materials. These three
knives represent all the machinery of production: the
factories, tools, railways, and so forth, without which
the necessaries of life cannot be produced in abundance.
And these three coins" - taking three 5 cent
pieces out of his pocket - "represent my money, capital."
Sipho proceeded to cut up one of the slices of
bread into a number of little square blocks.
"These represent the things which are produced
by labour, aided by machinery, from the raw materials.
We will suppose that a week's work is worth one
Rand."
Sipho now spoke to the Working Class as represented
by Nkosi, Thandi and Abendigo.
"You say that you are all in need of employment,
and as I am the kind-hearted Capitalist Class, I am
going to invest all my money in various industries, so
as to give you plenty of work. I shall pay each of you
one Rand per week, and a week's work is that you
must each produce three of these square blocks.
For doing this work you will each receive your
wages; the money will be your own, to do as you like
with, and the things you produce will of course be
mine, to do as I like with.
You will each take one of these machines and as
soon as you have done a week's work, you shall
have your money."
The Working Class accordingly set to work, and
the Capitalist Class sat down and watched them. As
soon as they had finished, they passed the nine little
blocks to Sipho, who placed them on a piece of
paper by his side and paid the workers their wages.
"These blocks represent the necessaries of life.
You can't live without some of these things, but as
they belong to me, you will have to buy them from
me: my price for these blocks is, one Rand each."
As the Working Class were in need of the necessaries
of life and as they could not eat, drink or wear
the useless money, they were compelled to agree to
the kind capitalist's terms. They each bought back,
and at once consumed, one-third of the produce of
their labour. The Capitalist Class also devoured two
of the square blocks, and so the net result of the
week's work was that the kind capitalist had consumed
two Rand's worth of the things produced by
the labour of the others, and reckoning the squares
at their market value of one Rand each, he had more
than doubled his capital, for he still possessed the
three Rands in money and in addition four Rands
worth of goods. As for the Working Class, Nkosi,
Thandi and Abendigo, having each consumed the
Rand's worth of necessaries they had bought with
their wages, they were again in precisely the same
condition as when they started work - they had nothing.
This process was repeated several times: for
each week's work the producers were paid their
wages. They kept on working and spending all their
earnings. The kind-hearted capitalist consumed
twice as much as any one of them and his pool of
wealth continually increased. In a little while, reck-

oning the little squares at their market value of one
Rand each, he was worth about one hundred Rand,
and the Working Class was still in the same condition
as when they began, and were still tearing into
their work as if their lives depended upon it.
After a while the rest of the crowd began to laugh,
and their merriment increased when the kind-hearted
capitalist, just after having sold a Rand's worth of
necessaries to each of his workers, suddenly took
their tools, the machinery of production, the knives,
away from them, and informed them that as owing to
over-production, all his storehouses were full-tobursting
with the necessaries of life, he had decided
to close down the works.
"Well, and what the bloody hell are we to do
now?" demanded Thandi.
"That's not my business," replied the kind-hearted
capitalist. "I've paid your wages, and provided you
with plenty of work for a long time past. I have no
more work for you to do at present. Come round
again in a few months' time and I'll see what I can do
for you."
"But what about the necessaries of life?"
Demanded Nkosi.
"We must have something to eat."
"Of course you must," replied the capitalist, in a
friendly way; "and I shall be very pleased to sell you
some."
"But we haven't got any bloody money!"
"Well, you can't expect me to give you my goods
for nothing! You didn't work for me
for nothing, you know.
I paid you for your
work and you
should have saved
something: you
should have been
careful like me.
Look how I
have got on
by being
careful!"
T h e
u n e m -
p l o y e d
l o o k e d
blankly at
e a c h
other, but
the rest of
the crowd
o n l y
laughed;
and then
the three
u n e m -
p l o y e d
began to
abuse the kind-hearted capitalist, demanding that he
should give them some of the necessaries of life that
he had piled up in his warehouses, or to be allowed
to work and produce some more for their own needs;
and even threatened to take some of the things by
force if he did not agree with their demands. But the
kind-hearted capitalist told them not to be cheeky,
and spoke to them about honesty, and said if they
were not careful he would have their faces battered
in for them by the police, or if necessary he would
call out the army and have them shot down like
dogs, the same as he had done before at many other
places.
This text is taken from the book
“Unfinished Business: the Politics
of Class War” by the Class War
Federation. Their website is
http://www.classwaruk.org
It has minor changes by the editor
Distributed by: Distributed by:
More copies can be downloaded from www.zabalaza.net/zababooks
Hand over the Bread!Hand over the Bread!
Ten Rand

Discuss

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-05 22:01

The experiment is biased because it handwaves away or ignores most of the actual operations of a capitalist system, the prose is uninteresting, and this is most definitely spammy.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-05 22:20

Its true indeed this is the end result of capitalism. layed out for us simple folk I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-05 23:26

tl;dr
but i like the beginning.
Probably i agree with it all.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 0:08

Shows clearly how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer in capitalism but, yes you will have to read it to see how.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 1:32

Erroneous assumption about economy been a closed system among other fallacies plus completely unrealistic hypotheticals under cuts everything OP says.

First of all, it's impossible for a group of people to somehow have a monopoly on all tools of production. Tools are MADE, by PEOPLE. They are not some static amount of magic items handed down by God. More old tools and never before seen new tools are made everyday. To assume all machineries of production are limited to a static number, and that static number is somehow magically handed to a group of people by some mystical force, is completely unrealistic.

Second, same thing about raw materials. Just about any physical matter can be considered a raw material if you can develop the technology to put it to use. Not only are there unlimited amount of matter in the universe, just earth itself still has an insane amount of still untapped resources available to the technology we have now, and even more with advancement in tech. Nobody or group present or future can possibly own all of it.

Raw materials are unlimited, additional and new tools of production can be made. If you want to stick with that arbitrarily set class distinction, then anyone and everyone can become a Capitalist.

There are lot LOT more other fallacies and errors in your ridiclous tl;dr example, but  I'll not spend my time commenting on them. The ones I presented above are the fundamental ones that cuts your whole post down.

Name: 6 2011-01-06 1:52

Oh, as for money, money only causes poverty when it is some state issued paper-bill backed by nothing, which then gets counterfeited by a socialist central bank so the government can have more cash to fiance more deficit spendings or bail out moronic banks. (Hmmm, where have I seen that happen?). But then that's a whole different story, got nothing to do with Capitalism and free market.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 13:09

>>8

So capitalism is like, God's chosen economic system?

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 13:42

>>9
Capitalism is mathematically perfect, if god created the laws of mathematics, logic and physics then this strongly suggests it is god's chosen economic system, in the same way mass and gravity are some of god's chosen physical properties of the universe as perceived by us.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 13:45

>>9
have some more kool-aid.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 14:00

>>10
I don't have to, thanks to capitalism I am free and prosperous and can sip Pio Cesare whilst dining in opulent splendor as opposed to chugging kool aid with my fried chicken.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 14:10

>>11
have a little more LSD in your Pio Cesare, then.
Your hallucinatory rambling endorsements of capitalism are HI-larious.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 14:30

>>12
Obviously we require more capitalism then, to help you see the benefits of individual freedom.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 15:13

>>13
tyrranical much?

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 15:48

>>13
But are we spawning more Overlords?

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 17:09

"The elephant is the perfect symbol for Republicans: they never forget, lead
each other around by the tail, and think everyone should work for peanuts."

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 17:12

Little kid got on the school bus today wearing a T-shirt with the slogan
"Proud to be a Democrat." Bus driver asked why he was a Democrat and the kid
said "Because my parents are Democrats." "So," said the bus driver, "What if
your parents were lying, biblethumping, perverted hypocrites? Then what?" The
kid replied: "Then we'd be Republicans."

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 17:14

"A conservative is a man who wants the rules changed so that no one can make a
pile the way he did." - Gregory Nunn

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 17:28

8-18 samefag or just trolls?

>>6 and OP seems to be the only legit posts here.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 17:31

>>19
I was >>2.  I just wanted even less to do with the poorly-implemented thought experiment than >>6 did.  But I thank him for saying what he did.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 20:02

>>19
funny how you question the legitimacy of everyone who disagrees with you. I posted 4,8, 10, &12, so there.

And, I finally read the whole thing and it perfectly describes "the system"

"But the
kind-hearted capitalist told them not to be cheeky,
and spoke to them about honesty, and said if they
were not careful he would have their faces battered
in for them by the police, or if necessary he would
call out the army and have them shot down like
dogs, the same as he had done before at many other
places."

So, so true.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 20:42

>>21

Yeah, it perfectly describes "the system", the one you have in your fantasy.

Ever heard of something called garbage in garbage out? You apply solid logic to lies, you still get lies as your conclusion. OP's ridiculous example does have flawless logic to it, but the whole thing is founded on false facts.

>>6 pointed out the 2 fundamental false facts that OP built his whole post on. How about you address that instead of just blurring out "I agree" or "So, so true" like a mindless sheep huh?

Oh I know, you can't.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 21:29

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 21:41

I find it laughable that the same people who argue vehemently for evolution, the natural development of life, are totally hypocritical when it comes to social evolution.
They feel that life should evolve naturally, WITHOUT INTERFERENCE -- survival of the fittest, if you will, but REJECT this concept when it comes to human societal development.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 21:47

>>24
Yes, you must give up your wealth to support programs for people who cannot survive on their own...because they must sit on the couch all day and play video games.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 22:14

>>23
Do you do anything but parrot what other people have said word-per-word?

Name: Puke and Snot 2011-01-06 22:23

I just found this on that website in  my OP

Is it necessary to repeat here the irrefutable arguments of Socialism which no bourgeois economist has yet succeeded in disproving? What is property, what is capital in their present form? For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working. And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilized by labour - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both. Note that I have left out of account altogether the following question: In what way did property and capital ever fall into the hands of their present owners?

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 22:41

>>24

Oho, do I detect an attitude about evolution?
Do you also believe in Creationism?
God, so fucking predictable.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 22:56

>>27
Is it necessary to repeat here the irrefutable arguments of Socialism which no bourgeois economist has yet succeeded in disproving?
No discussion exists in an environment of silence.  (Also, what about a "proletariat" economist who believes in capitalism?)

>>28
Maybe he believes in intelligent design.  I guess that counts as "creationism by causality" or "evolution on rails," maybe.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-06 23:25

For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working.
Welfare?

And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilized by labour - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both.
Definitely those who subsist on welfare.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 0:34

>>27

You don't know what the hell you are talking about do you?

>For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working.

Right, because apparently owning a property also..somehow grants you the right to force others to work for you? What sort of crack are you smoking? If people think you are an asshole or think they have enough ability to start their own business, they will leave your employment. You don't get to force them back to work for you at gunpoint pal.


>And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilized by labour - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both.

Exploiting? You mean voluntary trading. Equivocating in an awfully sounded word doesn't change the fact that employment isn't forced, and everyone is free to save up and purchase their own property and start their own business instead of working for someone else. That's right, those who currently possesses neither property nor capital are free to purchase property, stock up and invest their savings, just like hundreds of thousands of other successful entrepreneurs big and small all over the globe in the past decades, surprised?


This thread started by OP finished longtime ago at >>6. The metaphysical fact that capital isn't some static figure held by a group of people due to luck, but an ever increasing amount that that is produced and earned though work, drags this whole silly notion of some arbitrary commie class distinction into the gutter.

Name: 31 2011-01-07 0:43

>>27

Never mind, read too fast and thought you posted that stuff yourself.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 1:02

>>31
The thing is: no one who supports the notions of >>1 or >>27 will ever understand the true meaning of >>6.  It's completely beyond their concepts.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 1:20

just read the communist manifesto.. and now this? this is just god-sent.. thanks OP

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 3:37

samefag troll plague this thread, move along

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 5:23

The Capitalist System
Michael Bakunin
republicans that can think for themselves should read this it shows why rich are really the welfare fags

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 6:08

>>27
>>36
You have to work smart as well as work hard, if a scientist spends all day in an office and discovers a more efficient method of processing bauxite or a salesman discovers a more efficient method of distributing mobile phone accessories they've just done a lot more good than some worthless laborer.

Cry all you want about evil bourgeois who work with their "book learnings" and how you don't understand the concept of working smart, you're just embaressing yourself.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 8:02

some worthless laborer.
theres more of us than you. I can live without efficient methods of processing bauxite.  distributing mobile phone accessories no dont really need that either

Without us worthless laborers nothing gets done whos going to process your bauxite YOU!!HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

I love when you guys talk like what you do is worth a damn! like you produce anthythiing you would not be able to live without us! You capitalist are leaches what good are methods when you have no labors to follow said method. Most likely any ideas for inmproved method came from said labors and a slimeball lazy cockgobbler like you took credit for!

Name: 24 2011-01-07 8:10

>>28
I bet it would surprise you to know that I believe in evolution.

I am a TRUE believer in Darwinism, that is to say I believe in social Darwinism as well.
Do you? Or do you reject "Survival of the fittest"?

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-07 8:16

Seems to me there's 2 choices, if you choose to look at it this way:  You can work for an "evil" capitalist, who doesn't have the power to force you to do anything,
OR
You can be part of the Gov't "Collective", an institution (gov't) that has the power to throw your ass in jail if you disobey.

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