abortion is wrong dont kill babys.

i dont think babys shoud be aborted.its bad for the baby because the babys will never live.  when u abort a baby its like murdering a child.have u ever murdered a child?i sure hope not.so why would u encurage women to murder their babys? i just do not understand because its is so immortal and wrong. please stop supporting abortion because the babys did nothing to you.

i think 7 month fetuses shoud be aborted.its good for the mommy because the mommy should have the choice whether it shoul live.  when u abort a fetus that can survive outside the womb and has the mentaly development of a newborn baby its like murdering a cluster of cells.have u ever murdered a cluster of cells?i sure hope so.so why would u encurage women not to go through with a pregnancy after the fetus has achieved sapience? i just do not understand because it would be easier if we just forgot about the weak and helpless in our society. please support abortion because the moms did nothing to you.

This is /newpol/, not troll kindergarten. Back to /b/ please.

please just think of the babys.

HOW IS BABBY FORMED

Fetus is "life" but as are grass, mosquitos and fungi. Pretty much everything is "life". Sentience is the determining factor of having any worth. A first-trimester fetus has no nervous system; it can neither feel nor think.

Saying that a fetus is a "potential human" is like crying over all these sperm that didn't quite make it. One should feel worse about killing an amoeba, an ant, a wasp, than a fetus. At least ants can sustain themselves, while fetuses are nothing more than parasites.

Poster is an anti-natalist.

>>6
A problem with this perspective--and I'm just a neutral observer here, I can't summon up much interest or outrage about abortion--is that we have laws protecting the "California Condor," a large and noisome species of buzzard.  Inducing abortion, or the equivalent, by destroying fertilized condor eggs, is a felony.

Why are smelly buzzards more important than human beings?  Why do they have legal protections that humans lack?

>>7 yes, because they're protected species. Biodiversity is good. With overspecialization, once something unexpected happens everything dies.

If anything, poor people should get paid for having abortions. Especially in countries where Roman Cathlolicism is a state religion.

>>8
So, the life of a buzzard is more important than a human life?

I will only say this;its only immoral if it has a concience

what I mean by that is simple, the baby is going through absolutely no harm because its not fully concious yet

I doubt anyone here can recall their time in the womb or any memories from ages 1-3.

I doubt it can even feel pain. Hell, if a fetus DOES feel pain, it probably has a 2 second memory span (I'm exaggerating here so bear with me).

It doesn't know what it is, whats happening, and...well, damn, its like killing an ant.

only an ant can feel pain and is more advanced.

>>9
All life is important.

>>11
However, some life adds to the whole, and some detracts.  The preservation and ultimate reintroduction of an endangered species increases biodiversity and, especially since humans are the cause of the current wave of mass extinctions, a diverse ecosystem is more conductive to life in general.  Whereas a link between legalized abortion and a reduction in violent crime has been made.
http://slate.msn.com/id/33569/entry/33571/
This is old news, but still so controversial that the media has generally relegated it to "sleeping dog" status.  Those who have tried to refute this link have only been able to do so by engaging in the worst kind of equivocation.
So ya know what?  If you must stoop to attempting to qualify a pregnancy as a proper, full on, eligible for citizenship Life, then yes; sometimes the life of a buzzard is more important than the life of a human.

>>8
Diversity is often caused by overspecialization. lern2 biology

>>9 nothing is important
>>10 lrn2spelling. i think you've meant "consciousness", "conscious".

A fetus doesn't have an attention span /at all/ or feel anything if it doesn't have a nervous system. That's a prerequisite.

>>14
alright, Mr. Biology and spelling

my point still stands

>>15 Which point? There's no /you/ on an anon board. I can't really be bothered to guess.

>>12
Ah.  Thank you for clarifying.

Are there any particular human lives that are less important to you than buzzards?  Could you name them?  Or are you just talking about, you know, NIGGERS and other undesirables?

because the child has not started his life yet. and he is INSIDE of his mothers body. its purely the choice of the mother. i think it is more tragic for a young girl to get knocked up and have her whole life fucked up over it, or a very poor girl to get pregnant and not be able to care for the child properly. and you can ague that you can give it away, but you have to go through 9 months, and the act of child birth itself is very dangerous, so why risk your life for something you don't want. in the end i think its the choice of the mother.

>>18 because the child has not started his life yet. and he is INSIDE of his mothers body.

That's a pretty arbitrary place to draw the line, isn't it?  If I interfere with condor eggs and prevent them from hatching, it's the same five to ten year Federal felony time as if I'd killed them after they hatched.

I find your arbitrary distinctions unsatisfactory, and vastly more suited to discussions of animals--which are inherently almost valueless, I regard all the non-human animal life that ever existed as not worth one single human life--than of human life, which is infinitely more valuable.

Yes, I think it's tragic when teenage girls play around and get knocked up.  I think it's tragic when they die in childbirth.  But I can't help recalling that these things happened an awful lot less fifty or a hundred years ago, when both law and custom held that the girl in question had chosen to play the game and was just going to have to deal with the prize she won.  Stigma and the natural consequences were far better at preventing teenage pregnancy than giving rubbers to eight-year-olds, ya ever notice?

I HATE women. I never had a girlfriend and never will. The only times I got laid was when I paid a woman or promised her something. I'm never going to hold hands with a chick, kiss a girl intimately because we're in love, or any of the other shit that human beings were made to do. I guess that I'm suppose to be happy masturbating every fucking night. I'm a man with sexual urges and can't get with a female. I'm suppose to be alright with that? THERE IS A FUCKING CURSE ON MY LIFE. A CURSE THAT PREVENTS ANY FEMALE FROM LIKING ME. Oh I forgot, I do get interest from fat chicks and I'm not attracted to fat chicks.
I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm going to become the biggest asshole in the world. I tried the whole being considerate thing and it got me nowhere. If people can't handle my newfound harshness, then bring it on. BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK.
I get happy when I hear about some college slut getting murdered or injured in a hit and run. "oh she was a beautiful and talented girl, how could this happen." I don't know but I'm glad it did.

>>19
lol. they will play around. that's a fact of human nature. so please do give them rubbers. all that I'm saying is that if it's in your stomach, its your choice. That's the simple truth and it will never change because it is truth. and your analogy with animals doesn't work because one we are not animals. based on the logic you have presented it can be said that masturbation should be against the law? yes? because each ejaculation has the potential for human life? correct?

>>17
You can play snarky little games all you like, but our responsibility to the continued, healthy existence of humanity does mean that sometimes we should, that we must, willingly sacrifice ourselves.  And this could foreseeably force a choice between a buzzard, or rather a species, and a, or a group of, humans.  Unfortunately the kind of people who realize this, the better people, are the ones who usually make those sacrifices.  Because they are the same people who know that it's not something that can be forced upon another.  Those others who cause most of the trouble to begin with.  You see, it's really about the fact that it's our ideals and our integrity that make us human.  The rest, those gluttonous, lying, whining, spoiled homo sapiens' who have little interest in anything other than their constant consumption and rutting behaviors, are less than human.  And a good way to spot some of them is that many of them will blame their failures and weakness on other people because of their different color, or superstitions, or most often, the part of the world they live in.

Fetuses become sapient some time between 5 and 6 months. This the grey area. Abortion before 5 months is fine, abortion after 6 months is not. Abortion between 5 and 6 months should be decided by 2 licensed doctors randomly chosen, if the mother has cancer and the chemotherapy would damage the fetus or the child has down's syndrome or other defects then it should be ok to abort, if it is healthy then it should be illegal to abort.

>>22
>And a good way to spot some of them is that many of them will blame their failures and weakness on other people
You mean those people who blame everything on racism? Such individuals exhibit gluttonous, lying, whining and spoiled behaviour and clearly have little interest in anything other than their constant consumption of colt .45 liquor, fried chicken, ice and rutting behaviors.

>>24
Try writing your own post, Bubba; instead of plagiarizing mine.

making abortion illegal means society needs to spend more on welfare.  fact

>>26
Why not just gut the entitlement system entirely? It's basically a failure anyway. Problems that could be more efficiently solved with the churches, families, and local community efforts.

>>27

Then people start to notice that they don't need the government to run their lives for them. Do you consider that a bad thing and if so, why?

>>28
Do you consider that a bad thing

That welfare and government entitlements in general are a bad thing? Well, yes. For one, they're basically bankrupt. You've got multiple wars, all these entitlement programs, all that inflation to pay for all these damned things, a devalued dollar, a lower standard of living, I could go on and on. It just doesn't make any kind of sense whichever way you look at it.

>>29

Sorry for miscommunication, I meant the opposite.

Besides:

"The actual cost of welfare programs-about 1 percent of the federal budget and 2 percent of state budgets (McLaughlin, 1997)"

From the first link in Google search for "welfare in usa budget".

The problem is promoting the sheeple mentality who think they're "independent" because they've got a house on a mortgage which they'll be paying until retirement.

How about initiative? Like liberal pussies giving food to hobos in a park. Surely, they suck, making a media circus and a political statement out of it, but it's about not asking the state for approval first, or asking the state to do it for them.

>>30

Social Security isn't a welfare program, in which the State seizes the assets of productive citizens and shovels them into the pockets of the unproductive to keep them voting that straight Democrat ticket?

Medicare isn't a welfare program?  Medicaid isn't?  HUD isn't?

Try again.

>>31

Where did I say that Social Security isn't a welfare program?

>>32
Oh sorry, here.
"The actual cost of welfare programs-about 1 percent of the federal budget and 2 percent of state budgets (McLaughlin, 1997)"

>>30

You used the term "sheeple". You need to go die.

>>34

says who?

>>1
i will not "abort" my fertilised egg when you are prepared to exchange your life for it
and a million dollars

Hey, can anyone tell me when abortion was adopted as part of the Democratic Party's platform? Was it right after Roe v. Wade?

>>37
Hmm. Good question.

Some fun facts about abortion:

"From 1973 through 2002, more than 42 million legal abortions have occurred.

On average, women give four reasons for choosing abortion. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner."

ha, if you want fun abortion facts:

European Commission, in response to a question from a Member of the European Parliament, clarified:

“The term ‘reproductive health’ was defined by the United Nations (UN) in 1994 at the Cairo International Conference on Population and Development. All Member States of the Union endorsed the Programme of Action adopted at Cairo. The Union has never adopted an alternative definition of ‘reproductive health’ to that given in the Programme of Action, which makes no reference to abortion.”

With regard to the US, it should be noted that, only a few days prior to the Cairo Conference, the head of the US delegation, Vice President Al Gore, had stated for the record:

“Let us get a false issue off the table: the US does not seek to establish a new international right to abortion, and we do not believe that abortion should be encouraged as a method of family planning.”

Some years later, the position of the US Administration in this debate was reconfirmed by US Ambassador to the UN, Ellen Sauerbrey, when she stated at a meeting of the UN Commission on the Status of Women that: “nongovernmental organizations are attempting to assert that Beijing in some way creates or contributes to the creation of an internationally recognized fundamental right to abortion”. She added: “There is no fundamental right to abortion. And yet it keeps coming up largely driven by NGOs trying to hijack the term and trying to make it into a definition”.

>>39
Yeah, we all know it's being subtly promoted. This correlates with  >>38 It basically boils down to women almost never seek abortions because of cases of rape or incest. It's always more social or financial issues. Of course on top of that, there's the whole morality issue, but putting that aside, this is pretty scary.

I don't think anyone would ever get an abortion if it weren't for people being completely used to the idea as a result of miscarriages.
I could be wrong, but just to find out let's get god to stop killing babies for a few years and then see how people feel about it.

Babies don't vote librul, kill em all.
They contaminate the Planet too, unless they're jews, neegrows  asians or other Ethno-weapons Of Proletarian Revolutionary Biological Mass-destruction.

>>42
lol, ur an dummy.

>>43
Dialectical brilliance at its best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApLEhnqSWtg
i can has Talmud training too pl0x

>>44
Lol, I saw that video already. "OMG OMG! One joo gets mad at a reporter and some rabbis get arrested for doing immoral things, therefore all JOOS are liek this amirite? HHHUUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUH!!!"

Lol, dumb. Also, I wasn't being serious with the previous reply, I'm surprised you actually bothered to respond.

To all those people who support deaths of babies because they think that they should die, GO FUCK YOURSELVES TO DEATH!!!

>>46
Wow!  I'm convinced, and prepared to hand over my reproductive rights to you.
Way to bump a 4 month old thread that was stupid then.

ABORT MY ANUS

>>48
Oh dear.  The infection has spread.

>>49
Serves him right for rubbing anuses with other guys in jail.

>>50
What.

>>51
Anus rubbing is quit a common occurance in the clink. Men will drop their pants, one guy will lay face down while the other sits on him with their ass cheeks like a hot cross bun so their anuses are pressed against each other, he will then grind rubbing them together.

abortion is aceptable when its in the faetous stage

OP should had been aborted.

>>52
Might I inquire as to how you know of this?

YOU EAT BABIES

- Fred Phelps, messiah for the anti-abortion freaks.

I'm pretty sure they are protected from us. No one is going around locking up the birds if they feel like destroying their own eggs. If someone jumped you in the street and forced you to have an abortion then maybe you should start getting mad

Month One:
Mommy
I am only 8 inches long
but I have all my organs.
I love the sound of your voice.
Every time I hear it
I wave my arms and legs.
The sound of your heart beat
is my favorite lullaby.

Month Two:
Mommy
today I learned how to suck my thumb.
If you could see me
you could definitely tell that I am a baby.
I'm not big enough to survive outside my home though.
It is so nice and warm in here.

Month Three:
You know what Mommy
I'm a boy!!
I hope that makes you happy.
I always want you to be happy.
I don't like it when you cry.
You sound so sad.
It makes me sad too
and I cry with you even though
you can't hear me.

Month Four:
Mommy
my hair is starting to grow.
It is very short and fine
but I will have a lot of it.
I spend a lot of my time exercising.
I can turn my head and curl my fingers and toes
and stretch my arms and legs.
I am becoming quite good at it too.

Month Five:
You went to the doctor today.
Mommy, he lied to you.
He said that I'm not a baby.
I am a baby Mommy, your baby.
I think and feel.
Mommy, what's abortion?

Month Six:
I can hear that doctor again.
I don't like him.
He seems cold and heartless.
Something is intruding my home.
The doctor called it a needle.
Mommy what is it? It burns!
Please make him stop!
I can't get away from it!
Mommy! HELP me!

Month Seven:
Mommy
I am okay.
I am in Jesus's arms.
He is holding me.
He told me about abortion.
Why didn't you want me Mommy?

Every Abortion Is Just . . .

One more heart that was stopped.
Two more eyes that will never see.
Two more hands that will never touch.
Two more legs that will never run.
One more mouth that will never speak.

HOW IS BABBY FORMED