I keep hearing people say that their rights are god given. If I remember right, England has 13, America has 11, Germany, if I am correct, though I may be wrong, has something like, 23 to 26, and Sweden only has 6.
If these are 'God' given rights, how come, for example, America, can take, and amend these rights. Does that not make them Human given rights, and therefore, not rights, but privileges?
Discuss.
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Anonymous2008-03-30 18:59
>>1
Of course "rights" are totally subjective and not God given. When you gain "rights" you are gaining them from someone. It's a zero sum game. You have to ask from whom is the power diverting? Conservatives and classical liberals will agree that taking rights away from a (totalitarian) government is justified (i.e. the right of individuals to own firearms instead of the state having a monopoly on this right). But things like "gay rights" and "minoritiy rights" and "equal rights" are taking away rights from other individuals in society, which is very harmful to real liberty.
By definition a right is a form of privilege, but by connotation privilege implies something given to an elite. Lern2 spot semanticfaggotry.
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Anonymous2008-03-30 21:18
Argue as much as you like, but the only real liberty is (A LOT of) wealth. If it isn't green and doesn't have any influence it's just pile of words that any asshole can take away.
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Anonymous2008-03-30 21:56
Einstein believed in God and God given rights....
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Anonymous2008-03-30 22:36
>>6
That is but 1 cheek of the ass of power, the economic cheek. The other is of course the military cheek. Without either there is no power.
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Anonymous2008-03-31 1:19
>>6
That's only true assuming the judges don't put the constitution into force. If the judges would actually read the damn constitution and stop making shit up as they go along (legislating from the bench), the rights written down on the paper would actually be worth something.
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Anonymous2008-03-31 3:20
>>9
That's exactly the point though. No one really upholds your rights in the manner they were meant to be. And at the end of the day legislators can just fuck you out of those rights anyway. There's nothing in place to make your rights "real" and irrevocable. Just a piece of paper no one pays attention to anymore.
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Anonymous2008-03-31 3:52
Of course it's just a piece of paper, but so were the calculations needed to design the first nuclear weapons. I'd like to see you withstand a 50 megaton nuclear detonation and live to tell me "LOL IT IS JUST PAPAR".
Rights are a self fulfilling prophecy and no one is denying this, enough people need to believe in it for it to work. Much like faith in Jesus. Why can't you guys understand this? Jesus loves you.
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Anonymous2008-03-31 4:10
>>11
Problem is not enough people really care, or they have different beliefs (see Gun rights. some people think 2nd amendment rocks, other fags don't).
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Anonymous2008-03-31 4:50
>>7
He was a bleeding heart libfag humanist though.
>>15
socialism and humanism are mutually exclusive, retard
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Anonymous2008-03-31 8:36
>>16
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OH WOW WHAT A FUCKING BRAINLESS MORON AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
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Anonymous2008-04-01 3:49
>>11
I disagree. If the rights were God Given, Man could not take said rights away. Since man can, they are but an illusion and are thus privileges. As privileges can be taken away.
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Anonymous2008-04-01 10:40
You have the right to die. You cannot give up this right.
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Anonymous2008-04-01 13:28
>>18
But if theists believe they are god given then they will fight for it and the self fulfilling prophecy will come full circle, which is a good thing unless you are a socialist who wants to be the next Fidel Castro.
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Anonymous2008-04-01 15:11
The danger associated with atheism is that it will naturally lead to the belief that the "STATE" deserves to be worshipped because it "gives" you your rights.
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Anonymous2008-04-01 16:04
>>21
Christfag spotted. But good point, I think atheism is a lot more unhealthy for society than Christianity. It seems the fags on these boards only want to discuss if religion is true or not.
>>22
Yes, fuck us anally for asserting truth over your made-up farces. Fiction is only so useful. A society that depends upon fictions is a society that is intrinsically unstable. Just cut your own throat, and have done with it.
>>21
I'd like to know how you came up with that assertion.
Given the state of the most vocal atheists (e.g. Sam Harris) I could see them worshipping nature as a much more likely event.
I'd say nationalists are the real ones guilty of believing that the state must be worshipped.
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Anonymous2008-04-03 17:57
>>24
The most brutal, mass murdering, totalitarian regimes have always outlawed religion as one of their first directives.
Psychologically, it only makes sense.
Religion, or the belief in some higher power, gives people hope and the moral authority to rebel against whatever is oppressing them. Take that away and it's much easier to keep the sheep in line.
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Anonymous2008-04-03 18:18
>>25
Or to control 1 religion. Religious freedom trumps all.
HAY GAIS. I AM UH CUNT HAIR. MAI FRENDS ARE RETREETTING TO DADDIES BAX. I EAT SHIT CUZ I R HOBO GOD. MY MOMMI TOLD ME NEVAR TO TUCH MYSELF. BUT I DO. HOW DOES I CHRISTIAN?
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Anonymous2008-04-09 3:04
>>28
I take it you disapprove of religious freedom.
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Anonymous2008-04-09 16:34
>>25
Even though abrahamic religions always teach submission and obedience, and it has been a tool of exploitation for centuries, you managed to come up with that crock of shit, and the last time I checked Hitler was ok with the church (but ooh, it wasn't evil because it's holohoax amirite?) Iran is awesome because it lets muslims go batshit insane, right?
Nice way to be a retard with no comprehension of history or the world to support your retarded delusions about the supernatural.
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Anonymous2008-04-09 16:45
>>30
Hitler was ok with the church lol
Yeah, as long as it didn't cause him any trouble.
Read a book, troglydyte.
>>29
I'm not the person who posted >>28
but I have say...one day humans have to leave this religion stuff behind. It doesn't have to be immediately, but eventually I hope that people will stop believing in absurd books that were written 2000 years ago. A religion is a whole system that keeps people from using their critical thinking skills and that holds back humanity as a whole. There are a whole host of other problems too, but they can be saved for a real debate. For the time being I suppose religious freedom is ok, but I hope one day it won't even be an issue.
Let us forget the basic mechanics of HOW a government works.
In theory people GIVE UP certain rights in order that a collectively ruling group can exercise power that no individual could.
In modern times (and especially in Europe) the governments and more liberal elements have begun to think that THE GOVERNMENT gives power to the people and not the other way around.
To this end, the government will "regulate" your rights in the name of the society (An example of this was the anti-sodomy laws in the US that forbade "anal sex" in one's home as it was deemed to be harmful to society. An other example is the banning of smoking in your own home "in the name of public health"). Many times, people buy into labels, spinning by politicians and the media, and other attempts to hide their quashing of your freedoms.
And science does exactly the same. There is an assumption that WHAT EVER a scientist tells you MUST be true because he is a scientists. You take what you are taught ON FAITH.
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Anonymous2008-04-10 23:43
Science uses faith, but it doesn't rely on faith as the basis for the entire system
It necessarily DOES require faith as the basis for the entire system.
You take it on faith that when you roll a ball towards the edge of a table, once it crosses that edge, it will fall to the ground (ie, gravity will work). You take it on faith that the sun will rise tomorrow or that the laws of physics (as we understand them) will continue to work as we know them.
A more practical example: when children AND adults where asked what causes the 4 season, a majority (in the US and EUROPE) say it is because of the elliptical path of the Earth around the sun. These people, who were incorrect, believed that the science they had learned was correct. Their concept of "causation of the seasons" was biased on false knowledge and in the absence of counter proof, they believed that the Earth's orbit was elliptical (this is due to how many scientific text show the orbit of the Earth from a 3/4 view and not an overhead). They took the knowledge of the elliptical path of the Earth ON FAITH, not knowing what the truth was and because an "expert" (a science book, but a "scientist" in the faith of science or a "priest" in traditional religion) had told them "this is the way things are".
Most people CANNOT explain the science they believe in, only that they believe it to be correct without a shred of "scientific proof" and only the words of a book or a "preacher of science"... the same allegations that anti-religion types make against the religious.
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Anonymous2008-04-11 1:46
Science still works the same way even if you don't believe in it. Religion ceases when people no longer believe in it.
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Anonymous2008-04-11 4:06
Read moaor Hobbes, the world is not as simple as "OMG TEH STATE USES VIOLENCE THEREFORE IT IS EVIL".
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Anonymous2008-04-12 1:13
I smell smart people. Then explain this smart ones!
WHY IS THE UNIVERSE EXPANDING? WILL IT POP? DO I HAVE TIME TO MASTURBATE TO LOLI???