Lets face it, public schools are made of total fail, and we spend more on education than the entire budgets of some countries. Lets stop the massive fail and get some real solutions like Educational Freedom/School Choice.
What's too obvious is that American schools fucking suck.
Really, you should let your failures FAIL. None of this No Child Left Behind bullshit. If the retards and morons can't keep up then leave them behind so they aren't slowing everyone else down.
Don't be too quick to dismiss the NCLB Act. It demanded that school systems improve or lose funding. Predictably, the unionized labor that infects the public schools complained that the Act came along with no funding to get it done. That's funny, since the Act says "improve or lose funding or close" ... so where do these Union Goons think money is needed for? That reaction shows everything that's primarily wrong with the public schools in the US -- they won't do their jobs and only want more money no matter what happens.
The NCLB Act is not enough, since by now the public school system in the USA would have been dismantled due to its horrid performance. The urban schools themselves should have been privatized summarily.
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Anonymous2008-04-03 13:20
>>41
no private schools here are actually pretty good, and some of the universities in the U.S. are the best in the world.
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Anonymous2008-04-03 17:09
>>43
There are some very good universities in the U.S. I'll give you that.
But failure IS and option in universities and last I checked they do screen all prospective students and only allow non-retarded ones in. It's the idiots that are allowed to advance through school despite demonstrating that they're unwilling to learn and adament about preventing anyone else from learning as well.
Hold students back if they're learning too slowly, segregate them if they have some sort of underlying issue that keeps them from learning in a normal class, or kick them out if they simply think being smart is "uncool".
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Anonymous2008-04-03 22:21
>>44
Yeah i can agree with that
i remember when i was still in highschool some of the people I knew were actually illiterate, Don't know how they managed to get past elementary but they did.
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Anonymous2008-04-04 1:51
>>44 >>45
The trouble is the majority of students are like this until college when students finally have the choice to go to a college/university/community college, a slacker's college or start work. If they were all punished like that there would be too many BAAAWWing parents to deal with. Incompetent parents make up the majority and they want to force their fuck up kids on the sane kids, this is a democracy ergo state education will go right ahead and comply with their demands. Libfags whine about homeschooling and bible camps, but they provide a better education than their socialist utopia faggotry could ever hope for.
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Anonymous2008-04-12 0:15
>>46
So true. And how the hell are we going to compete with China when we have libfags and teacher's unions ensuring we have a subpar education system?
>>47
This retard clearly is a product of the failed American education system. See >>18
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Anonymous2008-04-12 7:31
>>47
Clearly what is required is a more authoritarian anti-democratic regime that recognises that minorities do not just include whining ethnic minorities but the minority rich and religious cliques that do not want to have to support the rest of the country. This is America, the land of the free, it is time to end the tyranny of the majority.
>>50
Everything I have said is 100% correct. Sorry your most heartfelt ideals were all bullshit.
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Anonymous2008-04-12 14:37
>>51
Of course, when you proclaim your bullshit is correct, it is correct. Enjoy your AMERIKAH LAND OF DA FREEE HURR DURRRR
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Anonymous2008-04-12 15:20
FUCK AMERICA. I'M SICK OF IGNORANT FAGS I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH GOING OFF TO COLLEGES AND "BECOMING SOMEONE" WHILE I GET SHIT ON. I KNOW WAY MORE THAN THEM.
>>52
Sorry but there comes a point where plebs can't make the right decisions and democracy must be limited, our policies concerning education at least are well beyond this point with shitty parents from the projects forcing their fuck up kids on the sane kids and dragging down the best and brightest this country has to offer. We need more seperations and divisions.
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Anonymous2008-04-12 16:48
HURRR DURR AMERIKAN DRIIIM HURRRR I'M A COMPLETE RETARD WITH NO EDUCATION BUT I'LL KEEP THINKING I AM SOMEONE, FUCKING EUROFAGS ARE JUST JEALOUS DURRRR
I have discovered an amazing site. Turn the volume for your computer ON, and go to http://blocked.on.nimp.org with Internet Explorer. After going there with Internet Explorer, go there with Mozilla Firefox.
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Ubernostrom2008-04-18 19:00
I find it fairly remarkable that after 60 posts nobody once has brought up the topic of parents and their responsibility in this matter. I come from a household of teachers, and while I this obviously biases me, a few notions:
-Teachers unions are shit, and not just because they call for more money or cover for bad teachers. These unions toss money to whichever arbitrary candidates promise them the most, allow school administrators huge bonuses in order to recieve 1.5% raises, and generally do not represent the best solutions.
-If the parent is fucked, the child is generally fucked as well. Entirely too many children are shuffled to school as a form of free daycare so that their parents can work to support their over-budget lifestyle; my sister works in the poorest area of town here, yet more than half of her student's parents own Escalades or oversized Chevy's they probably can't afford. There is no personal responsibility brought to bear on these fools, because their highschool-dropout asses still managed to register to vote when they got their driver's licenses.
-NCLB does not work the way it is supposed to. It can ferret out bad teachers, but still punishes good teachers with bad students. Running with my previous point, most of the students my sister teaches have no support at home to read or write, much less even know English if they're Hispanic. If we have strict standards that must be met, virtually all classtime can be spent making up for the neglect the children get at home, which overwhelms bad teachers and points them out, but drags down competant ones as well.
- When we as a society spend more money on prisons than education, we as a society have fucked up and need to actually adress the real causes instead of making blanket statements.
- Bad teachers exist, much like bad priests, bad politicians, bad unions, and bad trolls. So, what the fuck are YOU going to do about any of this? Bitch and feel superior?
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Anonymous2008-04-19 0:50
"-If the parent is fucked, the child is generally fucked as well. Entirely too many children are shuffled to school as a form of free daycare so that their parents can work to support their over-budget lifestyle; my sister works in the poorest area of town here, yet more than half of her student's parents own Escalades or oversized Chevy's they probably can't afford. There is no personal responsibility brought to bear on these fools, because their highschool-dropout asses still managed to register to vote when they got their driver's licenses."
They're future recipients of government democrats and loyal democrat voters.
"most of the students my sister teaches have no support at home to read or write, much less even know English if they're Hispanic."
Guess liberals should quit calling conservatives racist and shut the damn border.
"- Bad teachers exist, much like bad priests, bad politicians, bad unions, and bad trolls. So, what the fuck are YOU going to do about any of this? Bitch and feel superior?"
I'm going to support candidates who will support common sense laws that expand educational freedom and allow families to send their kids to the school of their choice so they can leave failing school systems and send their children to get a quality education from COMPETENT teachers at a private school.
"- When we as a society spend more money on prisons than education, we as a society have fucked up and need to actually adress the real causes instead of making blanket statements."
The problem isn't the amount of MONEY that is spent on education. We already spend WAY too much money on education. See >>1.
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Anonymous2008-04-19 1:48
They're future recipients of government HANDOUTS*** (I meant to say) democrats and loyal democrat voters.
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Ubernostrom2008-04-19 2:25
I agree with a good portion of what you say, except the idea of being able to shuffle children from school to school, preferably to private schools. Assuming that is brought to (what I see) its inevitable end, poorer children and minorities still get left behind to suffer at failing institutions, which doesn't solve the problem so much as subvert it from those rich enough to avoid it.
I'd ideally like to see the money given to schools be audited randomly, administrators have their salaries capped, relax curriculum while offering more after-school options, have forcible mainstreaming classes for foriegn students, punish negligent parents (perhaps by denying them tax breaks), remove the retarded from regular class, blacklist incompetant and cheating teachers, and place education and rehabilitation back into prisons instead of making more prisons.
Honestly, parents and teachers both need to be brought to task, and for the system itself to learn what works from other places and integrate it. The first step would be for people at large to actually get angry at the way things are run and actually elect competant people into office, which is difficult when people are so easily placated by tax breaks, fearmongering, and consumerism. Sort of a cruel feedback loop, is it not?
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Anonymous2008-04-19 3:18
School choice is the only solution to the massive fail of non-competitive government schools. Beyond that, what can you do about urban areas being full of people who are shitty parents? HINT: its this bullshit 'hip-hop' culture that doesn't value education. We need more cultural CONSERVATISM in America.
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Ubernostrom2008-04-19 4:17
The idea of school vouchers gets tossed around a bit from time to time to encourage schools, whether it works or not seems subject to change dependant on who is funding the study and what agenda they have. Unless convinced otherwards, I really do not trust the advantages of competitive schools; truly shitty parents likely wouldn't take advantage of the better schools, which leads me to think that we should simply cut out the middle man and send them to trade school or jail.
As it stands, I think it would be quite nice to punish parents who waste money on uncessesary excess by denying them tax breaks on their dependants, and placing the funds into a saving account to distribute scholarships to children who fail less. The biggest hurdle to that is that given the recession from the housing boom, the tax breaks are meant to keep people buying new HDTV's, not books for their bastards.
I quite agree we need to be more culturally conservative: parents should be parents, not their kids' friends, bad parents should be shamed as such, bad children should not be excused or coddled, and we need less easy outs via blaming the system or circumstance.
This thread is proof that American public schooling sucks. I mean, look at the "solutions" you retards, who clearly were out of them, formulated. A good example is >>66
The entire public school system is based upon the idea that a teacher is punished by having students that need instruction, and is rewarded by having students that are self-actualized. In other words, the system runs on the idea that effort is bad. THAT is why it all needs to be privatized.
In the private sector, when work needs to get done, you fucking do it or you're fired. In the union-coddled public-school sector, teachers flee needed work constantly, and then expect to get great benefits packages and steady COLAs. So, no wonder the public schools produce shit!
>>69
I've reread that first statement four times and I've yet to find a glimmer of reason or realistic thought. Explain yourself.
Perhaps I've been raised much differently than you; I've somehow found that the public school system is strangely based on the idea of having teachers teach and students learn. The government throws money to it on the basis that an educated populace is a more productive one, and the unwashed masses can get at it practically for free. If the students going into this system have deficiencies, even the best teachers will struggle to educate them, if they even can.
Honestly, perhaps privatizing 6-12th grade might be a solution, but the main impact happens by the time these little bastards turn 10. Saying to privatize all public school seems fairly tantamount to saying "Screw the poor kids, the urban kids, and immigrant kids. If they wanted good education in this life they should have chosen richer parents."
>>70
The USA. You lose. What, you think that the failed model of the US's collapsed public-school system is somehow going to be fixed by implementing more of the same? How many more billions have to be wasted on a do-nothing to do-little class of entitled shits like city teachers, before you finally admit that money can't fix it, and in fact money is exactly the problem?
The problem in the USA is horribly apparent. The public nature of the school systems is at fault. The public obviously doesn't want to fix it, and prefers to ignore it, and pay taxes to just forget about it ... while sending their own kids to PRIVATE SCHOOLS all the while this goes on. It's a travesty, and it's doubly expensive. OBVIOUSLY, the thing to do is progressively scrap the system and start over, from private organizations that can use the efficiency of the profit motive to achieve at least the same results for a much cheaper cost. I mean, you can ONLY and SANELY agree that the same result for less cost is the first goal? OR are you a tax-and-spend Liberal piece of fucking city shit?
>>71
I did explain myself. You just can't accept the cold logic that determines that result from the facts as they stand. Re-reading only shows that YOU have suffered from the same failure of your school system to (1) educate you, and most importantly (2) train you to accept facts and conclusions despite your partisan feelings otherwise.
The sad facts of the matter are as I described. Through Democrat and Liberal administrations ruling urban areas, unionized teachers have progressively destroyed this "teaching" thing they used to do, and have accepted a modified and bullshit-covered form of BABYSITTING.
The further sad fact of the matter is that the more failing school systems are, the more expensive they are, and that just creates a political cushion of cronies around them, which forms a protective barrier. THAT is the bullshit that needs to be militantly changed. Hence, privatization. Privatization is efficient ... and that's what's missing from the system: The effectiveness that follows from efficiency.
You have to accept these sad facts, before you end up taxing yourself to death to provide for a teacher class that works 4 hours a day, 4 days a week, for 6 months out of the year, to largely babysit pre-criminals. Those teachers will become your middle class, while you will just be the working poor, and those pre-criminals will turn into literal, ravaging hordes of real criminals, who will vandalize and rape your life while you work yourself to death for privileged classes that don't earn their pay.
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Anonymous2008-04-20 5:02
>>73
Your ability to dispense illogical and unreasonable thought while at the same time brushing off any notions to the contrary is almost staggering. You truly belong here, if more cogent people were around more to shout you down from your perch you'd lose interest and the world at large would have to suffer your vitriol.
Your appeals are in the right place, liberal coddling of impoverished areas to guarantee votes has strip-mined what little responsibility left to parents and teachers, the feedback loop of pouring more money into these schools while generally expecting less, and the role of many teachers as glorified babysitters. Fine, I agree to those problems, and also believe that they should be fixed. Your solution, however, is terribly narrow and unworkable in the long term.
You clamor that private schools are inherently more efficient, but why wouldn't they be at this point? Mostly, these privileged classes who do not earn their pay are the customers for this service; they already have invested in their children to succeed, have the options available to shop around for the best school, and one infers, have provided these children with the groundwork to actually learn. It is quite easy to be efficient and effective when you can lure away the best teachers from public institutions and simply replace them when they disappoint.
Honestly, take your solution to its natural end. Private schools now are in direct competition for the most qualified and effective teachers, and students are in direct competition for the best private schools. Those students whose families cannot afford this have to settle for the lower-end opportunities, and the poorest still would have to make do with whatever stripped down public school system still available, if they even pursue an education. Why should they, if their available options still end with untrained labor? Go a step further, what private organization would even bother to open a school in a urban area filled with, as you say, pre-criminals? What profit is to be made in it, unless it travels to absurdity and your education is simply brought to you by Pepsi Co.?
If I am asked to accept cold logic, wouldn't the most logical path be to repeal 100 years of child-labor laws, strap these wastrel children next to their parents in a textile factory/prison along with their teachers and union reps? Could we throw in those bleeding-hearts too? Or wouldn't it be more reasonable to try and punish the parents for their terrible parenting, force the government to tell us where our taxes are going, offer the best education we can to as many as are willing to better themselves, and have someone in this godforsaken country hold a mirror to it?
Congratulations on not understanding a very simple and unfortunately irrefutable example due to your butthurt reactionary delusions. Privatization fucks up your schools, not the contrary, however you may proceed with ignoring the facts because you never leave your basement and don't know shit about the rest of the planet.
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Anonymous2008-04-20 12:19
The problem with American schools is the niggers. Their average IQ is around 75 and the government and educational establishment collude to dumb down the curriculum in order to minimize the inevitable differences in performance between apes and humans.
If you are white, the public schools, the NEA, and the government are out to do a "Harrison Bergeron" on your ass, just to keep the niggers from noticing that you're brighter than they are.
This is VERY true. Isn't it sad we ridicule creationists who are homeschooled yet they constantly score higher on standardized tests then public schoolers?
The US public school system is broken and needs to be redone in a less unaccountable, lack of choice type of way.
The good thing with vouchers is the money goes with the student meaning poor kids can go to private school, you can go to the rich people's public school instead of the ghetto one, if your retarded it pays for a tutor or a retard school.
Good schools grow and bad schools are absorbed by the good schools aand fixed.