Collectivism is worse than racism.

An ethnic group sufferring from racism can easily identify what is racism and fight it. However if people in that group suffer from collective thinking, any attacks on it will be views as attacks on themselves not their way of thinking. Try it, ask any black person "i've been wonderring, what is the logic behind the formation of the black community" and you will either be called a racist or be given a racist answer.

I agree. But it's not just collectivism, it's downright racism against Whites, the so called permanent oppressors -- even though Whites are and have historically been more individualistic than the rest. The problem is not that they form collectives -- I see absolutely nothing wrong with that (Collective thinking isn't collectivism IMO) -- the problems is that they blame Whitey for their issue and so called institutional racism that is long gone instead of realizing they have huge problems. And expressing that on government level via affirmative action etc. is the worse thing that could happen. I don't know how liberals even explain it -- the "Let's have tyranny of the minority because that's clearly better than the *very* long gone tyranny of the majority" makes little sense to me. If people would openly accept biological racial differences for what they are instead of denying them we would not have so many fucking issues with this. But nooo, all issues are class related. :-/

Racism is a form of collectivism.

>>3
Of course. But what you did is say the invisible 'White racism' that they baww about is racism, while their racism is collectivism. Looked like a silly 'only Whites are racist' euphemism to me.

>>4

That's because you're another paranoid BAAAAWWW'ing white faggot. I don't want to hear about collectivism from some fag who probably thinks whites should get their own country so that they aren't wiped out.

>>1

Whites do the same shit, it's just that the world is so saturated with whiteness at the moment that the rest feel like victims have to band together. Why do you people continue to forget the hundreds of years where whites terrorized the world via colonialism?

>>5

GTFO with your White guilt. Fucking liberal faggot.

>>5
White privilege is the privilege of living with White people, who commit less than their share of crime, use less than their share of public assistance and resources, contribute more than their share of innovation, create more than their share of jobs, and pay more than their share of taxes. Unless you're talking about certain north Asians, a society without Whites is one that has practically no privilege at all. Zimbabwe is learning this. They should all feel privileged to live amongst us.

>>5
I don't forget the proud time in our history when Whites attempted to civilize the primitive populations. We brought them religion, education, gave them access to modern Western technology, spurred economic growth and tried to lay the foundations so we could help them to lift themselves out of their third world misery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden

>>6
You don't have to fucking feel guilty for shit. But just don't try to pretend history didn't happen. You might as well set sail for fail.

>>7
With that said, you admit that whites are privileged. Look, I don't know about you, but if you feel that it's AOK to become a white nationalist and get all tribal and shit, despite the fact that you are STILL more privelaged...then that's fine.

But when you cross that line you lose ALL rights to bitching about the fate of your so-called "race". You lose ALL rights to bitching about Affirmative Action. It's every man for himself, just like you imply. So stop your gay ass bawwwwing. 

>>8
You have to fucking kidding me. you brought them Christianity, slavery, unfair wages, social injustice IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES, sub-par education, gobbled up their wealth and natural resources and the world bank. today, you bring them Ronald McDonald and MTV. Guess what, faggot.......they're not "MCLOVIN' IT". You can't treat people like 2nd class citizens for hundreds of years and expect there to not only be ZERO blowback...but INCREASED white influence.

Just more proof that whites are whiny little faux-victimized faggots.

>>9
Whites don't do better because we are more privelaged, we are just simply BETTER. Do you have the courage to face up to the obvious truth? Racial equality is a myth, sorry. It's quite a touching ideal though.

The rest of the world is ungrateful and passively takes what we gave them, but they would sure as hell complain if we took away their Christianity or MTV or cars or medical vaccines now. Nobody is forcing them to do live like us anyway, they can go back to their primitive cultures if they like. The colonized populations didn't have to take the jobs whites created for them, they chose to so they could earn a better living.

Without Whites the WHOLE WORLD would be an undeveloped shithole. There would be no technology. Whites create most of the wealth. Why the fuck do you think third world people have a God given right to live like us? The free market is natures way of letting the wealth get fairly distributed.

>>10

You are so fucking delusional you might want to check your tap water for LSD. Non-whites aren't happy with whites and they weren't happy when you were enslaving, raping and genociding everything of theirs you could get your mits on. We bought the whole "we're helping" thing the first round. Hundreds of years later those countries are STILL fucked up and you're STILL there...fucking. shit. up. for. everyone. but. yourselves. You deserve nothing but what's happening to you now.

You see, it's very much like I said. The whites are feeling like victims because now minorities are getting all the privileges now. That's because white are no longer better, they're just fail. When you brought smallpox and guns, everyone was like WHOA. But you haven't shit lately. It's been all Chinks and Oil Master Arabs. Hindus, Persians...etc

Fuck off honkies! we laugh as you struggle to maintain the last scraps of power you have left

>>9
>>7 here, you severely lack reading comprehension. I said White privilege is a thing non-Whites enjoy.
It's every man for himself, just like you imply.
Affirmative Action = every man for himself, I lol'ed. How delusional does a person get?

Nice hatred of Whites, you tolerant leftie, you. You aren't even hiding it and I must congratulate you for being so open, unlike others of your ilk.

In b4 your explanation of why Haiti sucks, libfag. By the way, do you come from RevLeft?

>>12

1. How do non-whites enjoy white privilege?

2. I'm not for Affirmative Action AT ALL. But, one of the reason liberals started it was because of other race complaining about white privilege. In a world where it's "survival of the fittest" why can you not reconcile with the fact that Affirmative Action just might be a way of survival for others?

>>13

Nope. I'm basically an Anarchist and I don't even know what the fuck that means.

>>14
1. I already said it in >>7 quite clearly, didn't I?
2. I know, most far leftists don't. They still 'fight' their revolution on the Internets for their dream world. They want a total breakdown of the system blah blah blah and Affirmative Action would become obsolete due to your hypothetical changes to the economy and society. As for Affirmative Action being survival of the fittest, you have a faulty understanding of what either survival of the fittest or Affirmative Action is, and it's pretty funny that you do.

    "In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment."

Not to say it means kill welfare niggers, but helping them, and thus rewarding their behaviour, is the worst possible thing we could do. Also, if you begin to argue "But Blacks are not our rivals [...]" it's so stupid I won't even respond to it.

As for what RevLeft means, it's, to my knowledge, an internet community of social outcasts, on average ~15 years old, of revolutionary basement leftists (as showed by their own poll).
www.revleft.com
I go there for the lulz sometimes. Anarchists like you should obviously hang out there.

>>15

1. Insufficient. Living with whites is only a privilege if you're white. If you're not white, get ready to be called nigger and automatically associated with rapists, drug dealers and abusers, fried chicken eaters without consideration to your individual merit. And if that's not enough, white people will consider you their rivals for no other reason than their deluded and outdated since of competition. Speaking of which...

2. Most leftist I've talked to want bigger and better system. I want smaller, meritocratic and based on basic human freedoms most of which are outlined in the constitution.

"In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment."

This is exactly my point, you fucktard. Whites take advantage of an environment of white privilege at the expense of their rivals (blacks). So why is it wrong for blacks to take advantage of Affirmative Action at the expense of whites? PROTIP: If you answer is "Because they're black" then you're just another bigoted fascist and you prove me 100% right.

i'm surprised none of your nazis mentioned the jews yet

>>16
1. Delusional. http://niggermania.org/tom/gallery/images/whatsthematterniglet_jpg.jpg
2. You don't believe in meritocracy if you bash the invisible 'White privilege', which is used as a tool against meritocracy, which would put Blacks at a disadvantage. How about we talk about Jew privileges? The income disparity between average Jew and average White > Whites v Blacks. How do you explain that?

As for
This is exactly my point, you fucktard. Whites take advantage of an environment of white privilege at the expense of their rivals (blacks).
Leftists are an infinite source of lulz. You're delusional. White privilege is genetic not institutional, if anything.
So why is it wrong for blacks to take advantage of Affirmative Action at the expense of whites?
It is not wrong for niggers to do this, it is rather wrong for Whites to do this. Niggers are not at fault for getting the welfare checks, brainwashed Whites are, for the most part.
Also, do you think Blacks are more fit because they 'win at the expense of their rivals' without adapting best, rather with help? You fail to understand anything then.
PROTIP: If you answer is "Because they're black" then you're just another bigoted fascist and you prove me 100% right.
This does not concern Blacks, it concerns Whites who are gullible enough to provide welfare. Also, fascism has little to do with bigotry. Proving yourself anything less than 100% right is a feat. Leftists never lose debates, in their head.

>>18
ahh someone finally mentioned the jews

>>16
PROTIP: If you want a truly meritocratic society then blacks will fall further down the social ladder. There's only so far a people with an average IQ of 85 can go.

>>18

Haha oh wow! So full of fail

in #1 he never even answered >>16
 and in #2 he just accused him of being a liberal, i'm conservative and even i can smell the fail

you strumfront fags sure know how to debate!!!!

btw >>16, you're more of a libertarian or a conservative, you should try out those ideals

>>21
So you think #1 is a viable point? Do you believe in the White Conspiracy?
So #2 should have been answered at all, since it is not a question?
As for accusing him of being a liberal, I 'accused' (after his admission so not really accused) him of being a leftist. 'Modern' anarchism = leftist.
Nope. I'm basically an Anarchist and I don't even know what the fuck that means.
If I'm wrong, I apologise, but you call me a 'strumfront [sic] fag' (and unlike me, you're wrong) so you have no excuse either. :-)

So you consider a person who says:
Whites take advantage of an environment of white privilege at the expense of their rivals (blacks). So why is it wrong for blacks to take advantage of Affirmative Action at the expense of whites?
able-minded?

One out of three black American males are either in jail, in prison or on probation; 8 out of 10 black American mothers are single (gangs becoming a surrogate family). Homicide is the number one cause of death in  young Black males aged 10 to 25; It's AIDS for the males aged 25 to 45.

This is a complete and total abject failure -any way you want to look at it.


Also buttsecks.

OP here. I read everything, but I can't be botherred to respond to everyone individually, just some key points.

Collective thinking is different from collectivism. Collective thinking is a means for people to cooperate for mutual benefit and thus is neutral. Collectivism is an ends and a belief with an arbitrary basis and this is illogical.

Claiming individual members of a group are responsible for the actions of the entire group is a typical fallacy in collectivist thinking. This ranges from claiming individual whites are responsible for the actions of whites in the past or individual blacks are responsible for black crime statistics.

Collectivism leads to isolation, groupthink, extremism and an "us and them" mentality. Collectivist members of a particular group dehumanising and/or demonising non-members whilst dismissing immoral or illogical acts by members. Collectivism ranges in intensity from outright hate to hubris and passive aggressive behaviour.

Collectivist members of a particular group dehumanise and/or demonise non-members whilst dismissing immoral or illogical acts by members.

Collectivist members of a particular group dehumanise and/or demonise non-members whilst dismissing immoral or illogical acts by members.

And this is shown clearly in posts >>18 and >>16.

OP wins.