Fascism, from the Roman Fasces, a symbol of a bundle of sticks supporting an axe, seen in modern government buildings, the house of representatives, the lincoln memorial, the dime, and in state seals. Faces symbolize strength through unity. This in itself is not a bad ideal. Having the country support you in strength and unity, raising their arm together, is not a bad ideal. Nor is adopting an old hindu symbol to represent power and strength.
Fascism, at its core, can be used for good. A leader of Africa could rise up and use fascism, saying that the people must unite to eliminate poverty and strive for economic superiority. A fascist could the ideals of charity and goodwill to create a nation that is superior in a philanthropic sense, not in a racial sense.
But of course, with the advent of Hitler, any such unity among a nations people, and any common hand gesture as raising it straight at an angle, is seen as committing all the crimes of Hitler and being just as atrocious. Because of him, fascism can no longer be used for good, at least not openly.
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Anonymous2007-09-23 12:50 ID:Q2z9r9lg
hitler was a a national socialist not dascist you dumb shit.
>>5 This is why all Fascist states acted immorally.
It's too bad that your moral boundaries differs from that of your neighbour's.
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Anonymous2007-09-24 3:42 ID:7eQcQAU5
Fascism is the government's direct control of its people. Any aspect of religion, economy, and basically all of life is ruled by the few who happen to be in charge. The ones in charge only are because they think that they're the best for the job. That doesn't sound good to me.
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Haruko2007-09-24 3:48 ID:qsjnCNpo
yeah, it was Nazi
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Anonymous2007-09-24 9:03 ID:bbnUnlkS
hahaha! the irtony is under a fascist government this message board wouldn\'t exist.
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Anonymous2007-09-24 9:50 ID:3xs3Wajm
>>9
Bullshit, fascism can theoretically exist with freedom of speech. And 4chan. I challenge you to find me a state with absolute freedom of speech, minus 19th century America. Yes, fascist states crushed their enemies because they thought about actually getting their countries rid of scum first rather than immediate freedom. There's no reason why it can't have the same freedom of speech at least as in the West. >>7
That's Communism you speak about. You've got a clueless Hollywood idea about what fascism is. >>5
Fascism has never been used for good? You must be shitting me. Nazi Germany until 1939? >>4
I don't think so. Any source? >>2
National Socialism is an upgraded version of fascism imo. >>1
>But of course, with the advent of Hitler, any such unity among a nations people, and any common hand gesture as raising it straight at an angle, is seen as committing all the crimes of Hitler and being just as atrocious. Because of him, fascism can no longer be used for good, at least not openly.
Ad hominem. But you're right, scares a lot of sheeple off.
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Anonymous2007-09-24 13:38 ID:Qt4sjKuB
Hitler was a socialist.
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Anonymous2007-09-24 13:51 ID:3xs3Wajm
>>11
In my opinion he differs from other socialists who have a huge bloated nanny state by not having a bloated one.
Some of his policies were wonderful and brilliant (pre 1939), even if I don't quite like socialism. Probably the only socialism that was actually very productive.
Here's an historical curiosity; apparently Jewish Fascism was a common phenomenon in Italy. Before Nazi influence caused racial laws to be passed in 1938, 1/3 of the ~50,000 Jewish folk in Italy were members of the fascist party. Jewish families often had as much as a 2000 year history in Italy (there was mention of the Jews wanting permission to cry over the tomb of Julius Caesar after his death), and the Italian Jewish experience (at least in the North, in the areas of progressive city-states, rather than Papal states) was one more or less of recent integration with the rest of the Italian people. So they tended to have political views pretty closely following the rest of the populace; or even perhaps more conservative views, such as latin-americans in the U.S. The book follows the lives of five jewish families under fascism. Some were fascist, some antifascist. Some in shades of grey. The stories were quite powerful when they strayed from the nonstandard; most of the Italian Jewish experience of WW-2 was much different from that of other European jews.
before i put in my 2cents, you guys should know that the term nazi is short for germany's national socialist party back then. just an fyi.
ok, now i talk. yes, fascism in its basic form of united government IS a good thing. the problem with it is that it's so easily corruptible, a few bad eggs in the system creates a big pile of shit. when properly executed, fascism could bring as much success as enlightened despotism (a dictator who is a very good leader, deserving of his title). unfortunately, these 2 systems don't last very long. once a bad person gets the power, it all gown downhill.
in conclusion, fascism may be a savior someday. but not until people stop being selfish little shits, and start working for the team, not using the team for their own goals.
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Anonymous2007-09-24 14:46 ID:3xs3Wajm
>>13
Thanks a lot. Didn't knew really. I heard Jews baaaww that they were persecuted in Italy too.
>>14
Nazi is short National Socialist German Workers Party or National Socialist.
>the problem with it is that it's so easily corruptible, a few bad eggs in the system creates a big pile of shit.
That's why mixed with true patriots, like the Nazis did will create what you describe in the next sentence. Keep in mind that it requires a different society though, a slightly wiser one.
But I don't understand how it is easily corruptible. It's not. In fact, the only thing that's harder to corrupt is a Libertarian government. Perhaps you didn't check out the hierarchy? It's almost perfect, like a military one.
>unfortunately, these 2 systems don't last very long. once a bad person gets the power, it all gown downhill.
We haven't got to that yet.
>in conclusion, fascism may be a savior someday. but not until people stop being selfish little shits, and start working for the team, not using the team for their own goals.
Society has changed since WW2. I don't know if fascism might work in any way now, we've become excessively selfish. I think fascism might have been good as a transition from Eastern European ex commie states to something better ... They didn't and now they're shitholes.
19th century America
did not have freedom of speech for war dissenters, who would be jailed
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Anonymous2010-01-17 15:09
>>10
I agree with number 10.
Fascism could coincide with freedom of speech or just freedom. There is no reason why it cannot. Many people think it cant just because it hasn't happened before. And yes Hitler has given fascism a bad name.
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Anonymous2010-01-17 16:21
The bastard did the same thing with the toothbrush moustache.
This thread gets a gold star.
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Anonymous2010-01-18 0:10
Hitler gave fascism a bad name, but fascism deserves the bad name it got from him.
Fascism binds people together by focusing on and empowering their group identity, which ultimately leads to conflict between disparate groups as each seeks to prove their superiority over those who are not part of their group, which they naturally feel is superior. In other words, nationalism, racism, sexism, religious discrimination, and militarism are all inevitable side effects of nationalism.
Fascism naturally leads to the rejection of ideas and individuals questioning, rejecting, opposing, or not conforming to their group, and because it also devalues those things which do not conform to their group identity, it generates a justification and a motivation for suppressing those people and ideas by whatever means necessary, while simultaneously prioritizing the interests of the group above considerations to freedom and justice. This makes oppression of other groups another inevitable result of fascist thinking.
Furthermore, because fascism elevates the group and group identity to the level of sacredness, justice and freedom and so forth are redefined to be whatever serves the group's interests. Since the groups interest is of course the highest good, All evils done in order to serve it are justified and therefore good. Freedom of speech is not infringed upon by suppressing criticism of the group, in the same way that it is not infringed upon by arresting a man who causes a panic by shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. Thus total suppression of contradictory ideas is also inevitable- and as far as the fascists are concerned, they are actually protecting freedom of speech by doing so! Likewise, because critics of the group are enemies of society, imprisoning them is actually protecting the freedom of the good people who conform to the group identity.
Fascism is like Rabies. Hitler was a rabid dog. When a rabid dog bites someone, you don't blame the dog.
>Fascism has never been used for good? You must be shitting me. Nazi Germany until 1939?
WWII started in 1939. Hitler's reign of terror started in Germany long before he decided to export it to Poland. In terms of "being used for good" i will concede that you aren't talking about herding jews like cattle and using them as slave labor, killing the ones who weren't useful enough, or just killing them if you had a few extras- though I would point out that its DIFFICULT TO IGNORE that fact- and in terms of rebuilding the German economy (through massive war preparations) Hitler was indeed successful (though that economic success sort of goes hand in hand with initiating the bloodiest war ever fought).
I will also concede that it brings national unity, which is a good thing relative to national disunity. However it does so at the cost of fostering international conflicts, which are typically orders of magnitude worse than intra-national ones.
So while I am forced to concede that Fascism can result in some good, I regret to inform you that the good it results in is just the cherry on top of a giant pile of elephant shit.