Ronald Reagan is burning in Hell

I can't believe anyone could defend the man, let alone admire or even positively appreciate his achievements or person. Seriously, is there anyone out there who can honestly defend the foreign policy of the United States in central America in the 1980's? He was the incompetent figurehead at the center of one of the most brutal administrations in American history and would've been executed for war crimes if the United States wasn't a superpower. Nicaragua is a case example and a representative one.

To date, the United States is the sole and first country ever to be condemned by the International Court of Justice for state-sponsored international terrorism, due to its funding of Contra terrorists in Nicaragua against a democratically elected Sandinista government. The only crimes of this government was terminating decades of U.S.-friendly dictators and even whilst being attacked by a foreign-backed army, the government did not even close a newspaper, major opposition press (La Pernsa) was still functioning despite calling for a violent overthrow of the government (though it was basically U.S. propaganda), this is the only case in history I believe this has happened.

So how did a self-proclaimed friend of liberty and freedom treat the 1986 World Court decision to pay massive reparations to a country brutalized because it dared not to allow itself to be subjected to economic colonialism? It openly rejected the decision and kept brutalizing the nation till it essentially offered an ultimatum to keep killing and torturing civilians unless the U.S.-backed candidate was elected (which happened in 1990).

Of course this goes without mentioning El Salvador, Guatemala, Iraq and Indonesia, all brutal regimes which functioned with the support and praise of the Reagan administration.

Fuck your stupid little other countries. You know why? Because everyone else treats us like shit. We get fucked over if we try to help or if we mind our own business. I'm glad your little pissant countries got fucked over, it's the least we could do for how the rest of the world treats us.

>>2

Your insularity doesn't surprise me, do you ever seriously consider even why other countries may feel in some part an animosity toward America; its government and institutions, not the people. It's not hard, in fact you have to be extraordinarily accepting to miss the legitimate grievances of people around the world.

But again your attitude isn't at all unusual, historically have been Roman and British and now American scholars who wonder in awe about how subjugated people could possibly hate the intrinsic superiority of their respective empires. Of course it demands a necessary ignorance of numerous historical and ongoing events.

>>3
They hate us for the same reason a criminal mugs and rapes people. They're fuck ups and evil. Like you I believe there is an underlying cause for everything, even coincidences. Except I don't try to suck other people's dicks after they fuck me in the ass.

>>4

But by saying for example, Venezuela is fucked up and evil you're essential absolving historical events which have effected the people of the region and have a legitimate grievance. It's like saying India hated British colonialism because they, themselves were fucked up and evil.

I mean there are dozens of countries which carry out horrendous atrocities against its own people, with or without the support of the U.S. government and we should condemn it regardless, but any country voicing disapproval of the Washington doesn't make them evil or fucked up, in most cases it's actually rational because the disagreement is justified.

But your final analogy is flawed because it requires that we elevate someone disagreeing with your country to forcible sodomy, and that somehow even compromising on these issues is like sucking the offending dick. Even 9/11 wasn't an ass-fucking, it was a stunning atrocity that instantly caused the unjustified murder of thousands but if you want to see what an ass-fucking is, look at El Salvador or Chile or something more current; Iraq.

I think your analogy is more true when reversed and applied to Nicaragua again... the U.S. is ass-fucking the country and is demanding to get ass-2-mouth, all the world wants is to stop getting ass-fucked, but the ass-fucking is actually murder and torture and people want it to stop, as you would too in their position. I mean when has El Salvador, Guatemala, Chile, Spain, Indonesia, Vietnam, Iraq or indeed any country which has experienced violent U.S.-backed intervention, when have they ever fucked you up the ass?

Still pissed about that berlin wall falling aren't you, faggot?

y halo thar failures

By the way, have you boys taken care of the Darfur problem yet. Or are you going to just wait until they are all dead?

>>1
>>3
Ronald Reagan is burning in Hell

This choice post title is very inflammatory, and is only going to cause American Republicans to fly off the handle.
I hope your not be expecting a good debate or to enlighten any Americans.
executed for war crimes
This only ever happens to a countries leaders if they lose the war and have their country invaded. If WWII had turned out differently...

I highly recommend this documentary:
The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara
It's directed by Errol Morris and puts hacks like Morgan Spurlock and Michael Moore to shame. No bullshit 'infotainment' or political agendas here. It doesn't have anything to do with Reagen, but it discusses the past errors and misjudgments made in US foreign policy.


That said, Ronald Reagen inarguably committed treason against his country. The highest crime in the history of the United States of America was committed by the Greatest American, and you didn't even give it a passing mention. It's amazing how far a great smile and limitless charisma can do for a man.

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/political-scandal/iran-contra/

reagan=shit

The fact that we are able to identify and protest this type of behavior is exactly what makes America the freest and bestest place in the world.  Do you think that the citizens in a dictatorship have anything to look forward to but the muzzle of a gun for criticising their leadership?

>>11
I was just thinking of having these guys shot.

>>11
amazing how blind ppl can be. free? look again.

>>5
First off stop generalising like a racist. America is an enormous country with a thriving economy and has had a huge impact on the world. It is unavoidable for the occasional diplomatic scuffle to occur and hating everyone in America because of something that happenned decades ago that is very mildly related to the US is illogical. Before you suck the dick of someone who hates america again, always remember that they are idiots and whoever has whipped them up into a frenzy has an agenda other than the "social welfare" of their people.

"It's like saying India hated British colonialism because they, themselves were fucked up and evil."
Illogical and apologetic. Just because someone has a grievance against the US, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are innocent and free from all hate and when a US citizen expresses a grievance against a foreigner it doesn't immediately mean that they are ignorant "hicks" (bigotted term, but it doesn't seem to stop liberals from using it). I'm not equating voicing disapproval (1 "s") with hate. Look at yourself, you are equating Mahatma Gandhi with Hugo Chavez.

Indian government's policy 1950s
Grievance: Governned by foreign power.
Objective: Democracy
Attitude: Employing right to national self determination.

Venezuelan government's policy 2000s
Grievance: Accusations of corruption by American businessmen and intelligence organisations, as yet unproven.
Ideology: Chavezism.
Attitude: Paranoia, militarism.

When people who hate America realise America is not a tyranny controlled by a small group of people and are ready to present the case for crimes committed by a few americans against Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Chile, Spain, Indonesia, Vietnam and Iraq, America will listen and prosecute those criminals accordingly. Until then they are just assholes who need a skapegoat.

>>9

I have seen Fog of War and think it is an excellent documentary and despite despising the actions of Robert McNamara, he is a case example of an astoundingly intelligent man internalizing the violence of an institution. I mean he was roundly criticized by the hawkish side of geopolitics for his apology to the American people in his book 'In Retrospect' but where is his apology to the people of Vietnam, a country still suffering from a war ending more than 30 years ago.

>>14

Not once did I equate Hugo Chavez with Gandhi in my post (I also never called anyone a hick, being ignorant doesn't render you a 'hick'), of course India and Venezuela are wildly different and I never claimed they were otherwise but I was trying to illustrate that disagreeing with or detesting the policies of an empire does not render those effected by such policies, evil or fuck-ups or idiots or assholes as you say.

"...ready to present the case for crimes committed by a few americans against Nicaragua"

Now you show your own ignorance. This already happened and I previously mentioned this in my first post, in 1986 the International Court of Justice ruled in 'The Republic of Nicaragua v. The United States of America' that the United States violated International Law and involved itself in the "unlawful use of force" (international terrorism).

Did the U.S. pay the massive war reparations it was supposed to? Like I previously mentioned it pulled out of the World Court simply because it lost and it basically told everyone to fuck off and resumed brutally killing and torturing Nicaraguans. So tell me... if the U.S. pulls out of the highest court in the world because it lost a single case in which it was ordered to stop terrorism in a relatively unimportant country in its sphere of influence, what chance is there for recourse in all the other countries you and myself mention? Everyone knows they don't have a chance because the U.S. makes its own rules.

And because the U.S. doesn't abide by international law, it gives license to those who use violence because they have no effective alternative.

>>15
I have been paying attention to your posts. If you re-read your post I'm sure you can see what I was talking about precisely.

You did equate Hugo Chavez with the honourable Mahatma in relation to your claim that I was equating criticism of the UK or US with hatred.

You said.
"But by saying for example, Venezuela is fucked up and evil you're essential absolving historical events which have effected the people of the region and have a legitimate grievance. It's like saying India hated British colonialism because they, themselves were fucked up and evil."

Hugo's rants about the US are COMPLETELY different in tone and pure common sense when compared to Mahatma's wise musings. It is nothing like saying the Indians hated Britain. Some Indians of course hated the British and some Venezuelans do not hate the US, but in policy it is clear that the Venezuelan government uses hatred and the Indian government in the 50s did not let hatred influence their policy.

Ok, I accept the fact that USA had some failed policies concerning Nicaragua. However we are looking at the bigger picture as you stated.

"Nicaragua is a case example and a representative one."

If Nicaragua is a case example and a representative one, then it suggests the Reagan Administration and perhaps the entire US government is corrupt, proto-imperialist and idiotic as a matter of policy. However the entire world doesn't revolve around one case example, it is much more complex than that and hand picking the examples you want to show and ignoring all the other facts is trademark propoganda. In the past 4 years Nicaragua has stabilised, it's representative system a year ago succesfully took efforts to reduce corruption in the government and it's gdp per capita is increasing steadily. There are also 100s of other american hating extremists who have plenty of support, but for some reason prefer not to take up their issues with the UN or the public. If the US is imperialist Ortega would not be el presidente today.

>>16
"Hugo's rants about the US are COMPLETELY different in tone and pure common sense when compared to Mahatma's wise musings."

"I appeal for cessation of hostilities ... because war is bad in essence. You want to kill Nazism. Your soldiers are doing the same work of destruction as the Germans. The only difference is that perhaps yours are not as thorough as the Germans ... I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldiers. I want you to fight Nazism without arms or ... with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them ... I am telling His Excellency the Viceroy that my services are at the disposal of His Majesty's Government, should they consider them of any practical use in advancing the object of my appeal."

"If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British."

"One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work."

"Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals."

"Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian location should be chosen for dumping down all kaffirs of the town, passes my comprehension. Of course, under my suggestion, the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population, and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen."

"I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."
>Mahatma Gandhi

>>17
They were out of context.

Wasn't Gandhi also a racist?

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>>1 Since your opening negates any possibility of you being taken seriously or of even being heard why don't you, Ortega, Nicaragua, Cuba and every other socialist cocksucker just toddle on off to Venezuela and have a rally?

Now that USA is pre-occupied with Iraq and Afghanistan, communism is springing up all over south America. Though it's too late for the domino effect, just in shitty countries or countries who's balls lie firmly in the grip of the American economy.

Actually Ronald Reagan is not burning in hell because hell is a fictitious concept originally devised by the Greek philosopher Plato some time around 360 BC.

>>23 is plato there?

>>19
Kaffir=slang for black person in south africa

Reagan was the fore-runner of the Bushes

carter and clinton were the fore-runners of the surrender monkeys.

>>19
Gandhi was no saint, that's for sure.
But that's a discussion for another thread.