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Corporations in America

Name: Anonymous 2006-12-10 13:44

As I hear this consistent talk about how the private sector is much more capable than government to operate social programs, and how tax cuts are needed to spur the economic growth so that the corporations can be later taxed, I present an interesting source.

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/corptax.html

The American income provided for comparison is a family making $30,000 per annum, at a rate of 17% federal income tax.  What is truely interesting is that many large corporations get substantially less federal taxation, and in some cases, are refunded for taxes they never paid.  This is a strange case indeed, as it seems that these "tax cuts to spur economic growth" are rather redundant, as many corporations are paying less than the taxes of impoverished people. 

Libertarian doctrine is obsessive about telling us that government should be weakened, and the spending of the government curtailed to allow the market to grow.  It is rather amusing that the people who benefit most from this plan are not the people who pay the most relative taxes, but the people who pay the lowest percentage of taxes, despite how enormous that 1.8% may be (here's looking at you Microsoft).

It makes me wonder why so many middle class families believe the libertarians want to help them.  The middle class bears the brunt of the highest taxes, and is the true "common men" of America.  When libertarians argue that a graduated tax bracket makes it discouraging to become rich, they need only read the nice steady 1.8% that Microsoft pays to the federal government.  Ah, what a burden it is to be rich.

American corporations are truely the scourge of the market. And they themselves are proof of the "high tide raises all boats" myth expounded by various corporations and economic theorists.  Simply take a look at the GDP of various nations.

http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch2en/conc2en/globalgdp.html

As the chart shows, America doesn't generate so huge a GDP as many would like to assume, and that it is about 3 times that of Japan and 5 times that of Germany. Now that you know the scale of global GDP, look at this source. (Click on Facts and Figures)

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/executive.html

What is evidenced by the diagram is that in Japan, a corporation executive makes 11 times that of a factory floor worker, and likely with due cause (i.e. owning/starting the business), in Germany it is a larger 12 times. (Still reasonable)  Now go over to American corporation executives......Hrm. It seems that American CEOs make a staggering 475 times more money than the factory floor worker.  What is being drawn here is that the United States' policy of "rising tide" is not narrowing the income disparity, but widening it, making the rich MUCH richer, and the poor MUCH poorer.

Libertarians will sometime outcry that government facilitates this taxation, and must be weakened to prevent further injustice.  But I ask Libertarians, with the current system, what empirical proof do you have that doing so will rein in the income disparity?  What evidence do you have that doing so will not be what the corporations would prefer?  Herein lies the evidence of pessimistic outlook of Libertarians, would not justice be achieved if politicians were honorable? Would not the corporate sway be stymied if politicians rejected their bribes and lobbying? Would not taxation be truely graduated if loopholes were closed for large corporations? Would not federal programs and funding increase if corporations actually started paying their share? Why, if they actually paid, lower taxes across the board would be actually JUSTIFIED.  But of course, Libertarians will tell you that all politicians are corrupt, excluding themselves, and that the inherent evil nature of man evaporates in the private sector.  Businesses should exist to make money, government should exist to enforce the people's will, and the people's will is the only sovereign power, without it's grace, business would not exist.

Name: Anonymous 2006-12-12 22:25

>>13
Man, you guys are slippery as democrats, you keep trying to change what a Libertarian is every moment!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian

The almighty wikipedia has divided libertarians into minarchists and anarcho-capitalists, if you have a problem with level conservative arguments against what is a recognized faction of your intellectual circle jerk, it's time for a schism from the libertarian label.

>>14
You obviously don't understand abstract concepts, shameful.  In the origin of society, man was absolutely free (anarchy), but anarchy really sucked, you had to defend yourself from some douchebag trying to kill you/steal your shit constantly, and you can't enjoy being free because you're too busy trying to stay alive.  Thus, the social contract, man gave up some of his freedom (by instituting a government to enforce law, defend the people from injustice and maintain social order) allowing himself to be partially controlled (but protected) in order for him to enjoy his freedoms.  That's why you personally aren't your own sovereign nation of 443 Dumbfuck lane, absolute freedom isn't all you crack it up to be.  That's from Locke, you revisionist pigs.

By the way, one could say that the governmental issuing of copyrights and patents restrict the market, we ought to abolish those too.  How do you own an idea anyway? How do you own a frequency or a gene? Copyrights are governmental protectionism and ought to die hard for the sake of your libertarian cause, as copyrights stifle entreprenuerial growth.

>>12
Typical American, you figure the whole fucking world loves you for your "charity".  If America wants to have the moral highground, they need to stop picking and choosing which horrors they want to address and attend to them all, otherwise your motives come across as nothing more than satisfying your own ulterior motives. Which they are.  Nonexistant WMD's in Iraq while thousands die in the Sudan, most policemen would be fired for that kind of decision making.

"If you can justify murder I don’t even know how to respond, how do I even talk to evil?"

Easy, might makes right, Americans do it all the time.  And that's the gist of pure capitalist struggle. Horatio Alger be damned.
 
But of course, libertarians still argue that the only POSSIBLE way to coerce someone comes through the government.  We are all free to make choices, but in some cases, the choice is obvious which one to make.  If business "A" is the only business in town, and has the power to bribe land developers (also private sector, naughty business ethics, gasp!) to barr the construction of your business, I think you are being effectively coerced, as your options to start another business 50 miles away is beyond your means.  When someone limits your options to shitty choices, your freedom has been restricted.  If one business ones all the food in a community, and the citizens don't like the prices, they really don't have a choice, because "Starve" is not an option anyone would elect to.  Egads! Coercion in non-governmental form, I daresay, PRIVATE BUSINESSES!

Where do you get off calling Japan a "Libertarian" country?  Japan has conglomerates of corporations that have the bureaucrats in their pockets, not to mention the US has a hand in who they can and can not trade with. Libertarian? Still rather facist, considering what priviledges the government has there, not to mention the ethnic superiority complex.

>>10
"LOL! In case you hadn't noticed, it HAS been implimented - at least partially.  Reagan, though far from a perfect and principled libertarian, enacted some moderate economic reforms and our economy boomed because of it."

In case YOU haven't remembered, military spending exploded in the Reagan administration, and the national deficit passed two TRILLION fucking dollars.  If anything, Reagan proved Keynesian economics.  But then again, nothing economists (or what I say about the economy) say is backed by solid empirical evidence, with control groups, indepedent and dependent variables, you know, science.  Without scientific backing, economic predictions are nothing more than opinions.

"Yeah, because a prosperous economy doesn't help the poor at all, right?"
Yep. There are a higher percentage of people living below the poverty line, and the income disparity has widened.  Maybe you should like, ask someone who lives near the tracks, as it seems you live in a sheltered world. (OH BOY INTERNET FIGHT WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS)

Libertarians: Adolf Hitler, if he was a college dropout (oh wait), did meth (oh wait), was thought he had the way to save the nation (oh wait), and didn't believe big government was necessary.  My Ad Hominem is glorious.

 


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