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Atheismis the real force behind genocides

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 1:06

RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. - In recent months, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam Harris puts it, "the most potent source of human conflict, past and present."
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Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."

In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that most of the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the Balkans, in Northern Ireland, in
Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the vitality of religion's murderous impulse.

The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.

It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures rail against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than 500 years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition appears to be about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional 100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.

These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much lower at the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the death tolls produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.

Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars" were not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival claims to territory and power. Can the wars between England and France be called religious wars because the English were Protestants and the French were Catholics? Hardly.

The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-determination and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in
Israel may advance theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so forth - but the conflict would remain essentially the same even without these religious motives. Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of the tension in Northern Ireland and the Balkans.

p>Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider Mr. Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the motivations of the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he informs us, "they are Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable things about the nature of life and death." In other words, while the Tigers see themselves as combatants in a secular political struggle, Harris detects a religious motive because these people happen to be Hindu and surely there must be some underlying religious craziness that explains their fanaticism.

Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that Stalinism and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political religion." As for Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany expressed itself in a predominantly secular way, it was a direct inheritance from medieval Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked the culmination of ... two thousand years of Christian fulminating against the Jews."

One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by this rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed atheist ideology, advanced by Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity, be a "culmination" of 2,000 years of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent sleight of hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes committed in its name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the greater crimes committed in their name.

Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and some of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors in the name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people to self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code that condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of Christianity.

Atheist hubris
The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted."

Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades.

It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.

* Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution. His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11," will be published in January.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 1:41

People playing the blame-game are retarded. That includes both Dawkins and this guy.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 2:06

>>1
Atheists and religious people are BOTH capable of being sadistic maniacs.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 4:24

any ideology will at one point seek conflict with another, often violent in nature.

The pattern it seems to follow is that religious conflicts are the first to appear. These conflicts pit god against god, faith against faith, and chosen people against chosen people (and sometimes small patches of promised land).

Conflicts that arise from atheism and secularism seem to arise from the idea that to do away with religion would do away with said conflicts. unfortunately, and ironically, this process of purging religion for a society often turns out to be violent in itself.

both conflicts are drastic and stupid, and we would benifit greatly if we followed stricter seperation of church and state than we do now and just let people beleive what they want w/o pressuring any other group with laws that benifit one side over the other.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 5:01

>>3
There's a huge fucking difference, one of them are strictly individuals who do not sign themselves up for any sort of 'fun group' and the other groups together and therefore becomes led, not only that but only one of these two types live in complete delusion. Not only do the cultists love to gather into groups for their murderous acts, but as they assimilate entire families in their lies, there are a shitton more of them than the others, at least in regards to any given concentration of such people in any given area.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 6:42

Jews did all wars.

End of thread

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 9:09

>>5
Don't be a fag, atheists join up into groups and start wars like everyone else, communists, nazis etc..

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 11:46

Nazis weren't athiests, communists started at most 2 wars, compare that to the rest of the entirety of any war ever which have all been caused and faught by whatever you want to call them, fundamentalists, religious fags, cultists, or more appropriately, bastard ass niggers.

And do tell me, where is this athiest group sect? What is it called and how many are in it? I myself have never heard of any, joined any, or started any wars with any so.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 12:17

>>1
So Hitler was an Atheist?
Sure. Every Atheist leader use their own manifest scripture (like Mein Kampf) to present themself as "a Catholic, now and always". Every Atheist leader decorates their soldiers with belt bucles that say "God with us". Sure. Everyone knows that.

Not to mention the way the greatest sin to ever be condemned for, was "insulting the Führer", as compared with the penalties meted out for blasphemy in just about every European nation until the late 19th century, not to mention the Islamist states of today.

As for Stalin and Mao, for all intents and purposes, they perverted Communism from philosophy to religion. North Korea's Kim Il-Sung (followed now by his son Kim Jung-Il) even require the people to have every scripture made by their Great Prophet in their homes, as compared to "normal" religious dictatorships requiring every home to have a cross/whatever.


Much of the post is tldr, but the gist of it seems to be that "hey, I've discovered some secular fanatics, therefore religious fanaticism isn't so evil after all", which is ofcourse bullshit (a fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic), followed by "these 'religious' wars weren't really about religion after all", which is (mostly) also bullshit.

Thing is, they may extremely well have started for other reasons, but religion keeps fuelling them. Usually some religion just showed up and hijacked the war (Northern Ireland, Middle East, Yugoslavia), or it eagerly provided a handy excuse (Crusades, the Frankish kingdom under Charlemagne that used prosyletising as an excuse to conquer northwards, causing the Danish king to effectively start off the Viking Age in self-defense). Mostly it fanned the flames (like the 30-years war (1618-1638), which made Germany the battleground for just about every military power in Europe with a score to settle (or a territorial ambition), and devastated and traumatised Germany on a scale the World Wars can barely even match).

Like I said, a fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic. Religions seems to spawn them much more readily, though, which should give an intelligent man (or woman or whatever) a hint.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 14:26

lol

Name: Xel 2006-11-22 15:23

Just because communism was atheist doesn't mean it can be associated with atheism. Atheism doesn't say shit about the economy. P-a-t-h-e-t-i-c. Atheism does not create irrationality.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 15:37

"Atheism does not create irrationality."

You're a fucking retard.

Name: Anonymous 2006-11-22 16:02

>>9
made of win and god.

Don't change these.
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