Barack Obama '08

Should he run? And if he did, would you vote for him?

Just another democrat who thinks bureacracy and tax payer's money solves every problem and if it doesn't solve it, well there's plenty more where that came from.

Ahem Brother...All the freaking politicians are hypocrites, but at least there is some accountability with true conservatives...

Well, after doing a very quick check of his background, I see he: 

1.  Supports affirmative action.
2.  Strongly supports gun control - has pushed for a ban of semi-automatic weapons.
3.  Supports socialized medicine.
4.  Voted YES on reauthorizing the Patriot Act.
5.  Supports extending welfare and medicaid benefits to illegals.
6.  Supports establishment of a guest worker program.
7.  Supports a path to citizenship for guest workers.
8.  Supports opening up social security to illegals.
9.  Voted NO on extending tax cuts
10. Voted NO on repealing the death tax.
11. Advocates 'more possession restrictions' on firearms ownership.
12.  Voted NO on reducing overall federal spending by 40%.
13.  Recieved an 'F' rating from Gun Owners of America, indicating strong opposition to private ownership of firearms.
14.  Recieved an 'F' rating from the National Taxpayer's Union, indicating a love of big-government and big-spending.

I've heard enough.  Another dumb liberal who hates guns, loves government, and doesn't have the spine to consistently oppose the  Patriot Act.  Fuck him.

>>4
"2.  Strongly supports gun control - has pushed for a ban of semi-automatic weapons."

Oh NO! Not our semi-automatic weapons! Who the fuck does this nazi think he is?? You sound like an attack ad, man. gtfo.

>>5
Well that's not a very compelling argument, but I'll give you it if you find excuses for the other 13 questionable acts Obama has made during his career.

>>5
You really are a stupid fuck.  Do you know how fucking broadly the term ' semi-automatic weapon ' could be applied to guns? Of course you don't, because if you did, you wouldn't say something so stupid you fucking cunt.  GB2 China.

>>6
Questionable? Fuck that - they are downright unacceptable.  Fuck Obama.

>>4
1. Not good.
2. Not intrinsically bad, but ineffective and ethically dubious.
3. Yeah, privatization has worked so well.
4. Stupid populist bastard
5. Hmmm I can't condemn or approve.
6. Is this ineffective or problematic? Or is it just classic paranoia?
7. See point 6.
8. This doesn't sound good though.
9. In a time of big spending regressive tax cuts are irresponsible.
10. See point 5.
11. Probably not good, unethical.
12. Where would these spending cuts occur?
13. I don't care for their ratings but I dislike control because it is a slippery slope and has very mixed results.
14. Bad.

Okay, I agree, fuck him.

1. I will REDEFINE affirmative action
2. I will make sure guns are controlled into every single household or every single person's hands if need be
3. Fuck the quacks those fucking greedy fucks don't know shit, and worse, government paid quacks, do you REALLY want either of those two to ever touch you?
4. Something would be done about this, I'm not sure yet, but considering how massive a failure the patriot act is, it would take a real whammy of a correcting agent to set things even remotely right let along put things in their proper place, I promise I'll have something though
5. Both of them are history, illegals or for whoever, fuck that shit. Or wait, I got it, welfare pays in ammunition, not checks.
6. More people supporting this NAU bullshit, I don't, for sure.
7. I'm highly considering disbanding the collective known as citizenship, if you can live here then you live here, if you can't then you can't, really it should be as simple as that.
8. Social Security, like welfare, is gone, over, done, this isn't the 30s anymore.
9. Taxes are over, if we need money we'll either steal it from you in your face instead of making you fill out a paper to do it OR we'll just take it from some other country.
10. The fuck is a death tax? There aren't any taxes anyway, moot.
11. I agree, the restrictions are as follows: You are never allowed to not have a loaded arm and plenty of clips on you at all times, you may be fined for not complying, fee will be a standard issue colt 1911.
12. I agree, as much weed as we'll be smoking at the capitol, we'll be upping our spending either way.

1. Sigh, I like how people always think AA is the stealing of jobs from white educated people to give them to uneducated minorities, the only AA I recognize is the selection of an equally qualified person of another race, there, done.
2. Let them have their guns, just increase penalties for parents who leave their guns out irresponsibly, I mean Prison or $250,000 fines, the shit is unacceptable.  Increase penalties for shooting black people with guns who happen to be undercover cops pointing their guns at REAL criminals.
3. Caring for our old folks is a responsibility of our nation, we should be trying to get the best healthcare for the lowest cost, VA seems to be the best example, and god forbid, it's state funded.
4. Should be repealed.
5. Shouldn't be allowed, citizens pay for them, only citizens should recieve them.  If you don't like that, have the healthcare provided but without the patient confidentiality protection so they can be found and deported once they're well.
6.  Cry more, free market wants this, free market gets this, or will all you greedy fuckheads want to oppose the principles of reganomics you adore once they approach an international scope?  Opposition to the NAU is hypocritical to supporting reaganomics and what it dictates.  Please, appear more focused on yourselves getting every break even when it violates your principles of self-determination.
7.  Citizenship is an obsolete concept but it's needed for the fullfillment of the social contract.
8.  Social Security is not going to work until all the baby boomers die off. Privatization isn't the answer, same with Healthcare. Till then I hope old people stay active and keep making money, the younger generation isn't making enough money to support themselves plue 3 others.
9.  Taxes should be raised and the fucking war ended, America is driving itself into a debt hole we may never get out of.  We keep screaming for economic growth that doesn't meet our expectations, while the rich get more cuts off of the more money they make, trickle down is practically non-existant.  Military might means virtually shit these days when guerrillas can kill our servicemen and cause millions in damages to equipment with IEDs, cut back on "defense" spending and start paying back what we owe.
10.  Estate tax.....LOL, rich people want to give their shit to their little rich brats when they croak, fuck that, give it to your kids when you're alive and teach them to make their own money like the rest of us.
11. >>10 must really want to fucking kill some people, multiple clips? WTF, are you going to go postal or something?  There is a good reason Texans can't carry handguns on them, and forcing everyone to carry a firearm on their person is not only a breach of their liberties, but doesn't make good sense.  If you're going through a bad neighborhood or walking out of your car and you want to feel safe, go right ahead, but if everyone has a weapon on them I see a huge potential for stupid violence.  ...Who the fuck cares what some NGO says anyway? Who the fuck cares what anyone says? Appeal to Authority Fail.
12. Appeal to Authority Fail #2.

12.

>>9
It was a general spending cut - an across the board attempt to reign in runaway federal spending.

>>2 Agreed

1. Not good.
2. Not intrinsically bad, but ineffective and ethically dubious.
3. Yeah, privatization has worked so well.
4. Stupid populist bastard
5. Hmmm I can't condemn or approve.
6. Is this ineffective or problematic? Or is it just classic paranoia?
7. See point 6.
8. This doesn't sound good though.
9. In a time of big spending regressive tax cuts are irresponsible.
10. I'll suck your cock. Don't worry, no mongling this time, none at all. 8D

The one thing Obama DOES have in his favor is that he opposed the Iraq war at the outset (of course, he wasn't in office at the time, so perhaps that wasn't too difficult).

Can we all agree that his intelligence and charisma at least makes him a better Democratic candidate than Hillary?

But anyway, I'd rather see McCain in office than Obama or Hillary.

>>15
Obama has already said he's not running, Hilary is not the auto-choice for democrats. It's still two years away, no one has started campaigning or anything. Wait to see which candidates come up on both sides.

A large portion of the democrat party just want to see a woman or a black guy as president. I don't particularly care, but if this means Obama runs for president they're making a big mistake.

>>11
It isnt about going postal, it is about making fucking sure every single person is on an equal ground of capabilities in the regards of weaponry no matter what, are you really going to start firing in the middle of a busy street if every single one of the people there is guaranteed to have a weapon as well? Maybe if you want to have a really good firefight then sure you would but most people? No.
Also 'police' are abolished.

>>18
Well if police are abolished, that means due process isn't really needed is it? Just take your guns and lynch a few people because you feel like it.  Law exists to protect the minority, which when weaponry is highly dispersed, means little when you are outnumbered.  So I think some guy keyed my car, I'll go load up my guns and kill him, prefectly justifiable response of a gun worshipping savage.

>>18
Go watch your Clint Eastwood movies and stay out of real life.

>>19
If you want to shoot a guy for keying your car you can, he has a gun too though so you have to remember than because it will be GUARANTEED he will have one as it will have been illegal for him to not haveit on him at any time, numbers mean little if combat is certain when guns are involved, all it takes is one well placed hit to lower them, and these are semis, so it can all be done at a hand squeeze.

>>20
Because I watch movies.

>>19
>>20
troll'd

>>18
>>21
troll

He wouldn't make a good Cookie Monster or president.

>>21
I bet gunfights end real fast.  There is a very good chance that you will die if the other guy has a gun too. ESPECIALLY if he brought a buddy.  Gunfights have very high attrition rates, particularly with semi automatics. 

Lots of Gun Proponents are like thugs looking for an excuse to kill someone, it's like they get off on violence.  If you're wanting EVERYONE to have guns you're saying you want things to be like the old west, hence why 20 told you to go watch some fucking Clint Eastwood movies.  Situations in which people die over really stupid shit that could be settled in court like civilized people, rather than like barbarians are something that society has already stated it wants to avoid, one of the reasons brandishing a weapon is a crime.

25 comments and not one ten year-old shouting slurs. GJ newpol

U ALL R STEIID

>>18 is obviously a troll.  The vast majority libertarians and pro-gun folks are *NOT* in favor of abolishing the police.  Libertarians/conservatives tend to support and have the support of law enforcement.  Many members of the NRA are members of law-enforcement groups.  The Fraternal Order of Police, the largest rank-and-file law enforcement organization in the USA has sided with the NRA on a wide range of issues including the Clintonian Assault Weapons ban.

>>25 has just bought into the lies of the Brady Bunch.  Wake up, the majority of americans support the NRA, not Handgun Control  Inc, or the Brady Center, or whatever alias they are going under now.  The NRA is the american mainstream.  They are not radicals, extremists, criminals, or wild-wild west gunslingers.  The NRA supports the 2nd amendment for lawful citizens, not criminals.  It makes me laugh when you stupid fucks try to tie support for the second amendment/bill of rights up with criminality.  In my state, there have been over hundreds of thousands of concealed carry permits issued.  Guess how many have been convicted of a violent crime? Not one.  Despite your ridiculous attempts to brand gun owners as people looking to get in gunfights, shootouts, and get engaged in criminal activity, quite the opposite seems to be the case.  The vast majority of gun toting americans are in reality *MORE* law abiding than the rest of the country.

Maybe instead of harassing gun owners with enormous (not to mention ridiculous) amounts of pointless bureaucratic gun laws that have proven to be near-worthless in solving actual crime, in preventing crime, or in apprehending and taking care of criminals, you should actually lock up the criminals? Taking away guns from law-abiding americans is not going to stop crime.  You know what will? Putting criminals in jail.  Amazing isn't it?

Of course, the problem with THAT is that our jails are currently overcrowded with otherwise lawful people who have been caught for peacefully smoking or possessing marijuana.  Almost 60% of the arrests made in 1996 were marijuana users, compared to around 40-50% in 2005.  The vast majority of these people (around 80% of them) do not have violent crimes on their records.  They are peaceful people who have been jailed for engaging in a completely peaceful and enjoyable recreational activity - smoking.  Overcrowding in jails means that we have high jail turnover... that REAL violent criminals, such as murderers and rapists are getting early releases and or parole to go harm more people, while their recently vacated jail cells are being filled with peaceful and typically otherwise-law-abiding pot-smoking hippies and rebellious teenagers - all because they chose to peacefully enjoy a joint.

Following this, I tend to hear calls from the democrats & the Brady Bunch that, because of the so called violence epidemic, we need more & tougher gun laws, while they simultaneously say they will continue the drug war. 

Amazing how guns and drugs are so closely related.  Drugs get banned, crime soars, and guns take the blame for a crime problem that was practically created by the shitty drug policies our government engaged in.  Take a look at prohibition.  Resulting from the huge rise in crime accompanying prohibition back in the 30's, we instituted our nation's first gun control law. 

When people give murderers and rapists early release from prison, and throw hippies in jail, what the hell do they expect to happen? No amount of bureaucratic red tape and gun control laws will make up for the fact that we are failing to address they key problem here:  our drug/crime policy.  Until we stop imprisoning people for smoking and possessing marijuana, and START imprisioning people for committing violent crime, we are going to continue to see violent crime.  Its as simple as that. 

The obvious solution? Legalize marijuana to reduce overcrowding in prisons, then lock up violent criminals, not pot smokers.  Following that, crime will go down, and gun control can become a distant memory.

>>28 Bump and seconded. Yeah, this is why I only approve of democrats on a governor/mayor level, and won't trust them unless they have stated that they are adverse to lame iterations of gun control and the "war on drugs (that are not tobacco or alcohol)". Regarding Clinton and Obama, here are some scathing, eye-opening indictments of the elitist dems from portions of the left that care more about civil rights than sucking up to airheaded soccer moms and christian degenerates (a tautology, I know): http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor10312006.html    and      http://www.counterpunch.org/sharon10312006.html

>>29
I'm against an attack on a person's right to smoke marijuana OR cigarettes, OR to drink alcohol if they wish as well.  Prohibition was a massive failure, and smokers in general are unfairly demonized.  Many people I know call them assholes for no reason other than that they smoke.  People in general need to just live and let live.  If a smoker isn't bothering you, who cares? Let him smoke, whether its tobacco or marijuana he happens to be smoking.  Its his body, and his choice to put what he wants in it.

>>28, >>29, & >>30

All reasons I am a libertarian, not a democrat nor a republican.

Libertarian economics are dumb.

>>32 Convincing argument.

>>33 They have flaws. Buuuuuuuuuuut fuck that this thread is finito.

libertarians>republicans>democrats

* > neocon