Feminism

According to the dictionary, feminism is:  "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

For 'economic equality', would you not require a Socialistic government that then redistributes income? Why should we have 'economic equality' among men and women? Men and women should make equal pay for an equal amount of work.  They should not make equal amounts of pay regardless of whether or not they work.

I think it is interesting to note that Friedan herself (the mother of feminism, essentially) was a staunch Marxist. 

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/friedan-per-horowitz.html

http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/1125roberts.html

http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue35/boucher35.htm

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=1096

http://www.rense.com/general21/bettyfriedan.htm

What of 'social equality'? How will you achieve this 'social equality'? Are you going to ram this agenda down everyone's throat through government force, and social control?

According to webster online, the definition of fascism is:  "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

Of particularly important note is the section that reads "economic and social regimentation".  Keeping in mind that feminism demands both economic, and social equality of the sexes, this begs the question:  'how will you attain this 'social and economic equality'?  Through use of the government. 

Political equality is something women in the USA already have.    So what is the purpose behind the feminist movement?

In light of these considerations, I am not a 'feminist.'  I am in favor of equal rights under the law for all people, regardless of sex.  Is this 'feminism'? No.  Not feminism by definition, anyway.

>>120 You do not have a penis any longer. Laughing Audibly While Revolving on the Closest Horisontal Plane oh Diety of Mine!

>>120
Forcing tolerance and social equality onto people through use of the government doesn't sound very libertarian.

>>122
You're a fucking idiot. Did you even read the post?

gb2/sucking falwell's cock/

>>116

I don't let insults build a wall in front of me. As long as I'm speaking the truth, providing facts, and backing myself up, I really don't have anything to worry about. Especially from Internet twats like >>96 >>99 >>101 , since they dig their own graves.

Those whom use insults have a primitive mind.

>>119

"Haha, you have Internet in the kitchen? What the fuck."

Actually, in the living room. *sigh* Kids.

">1.  Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
>2.  The movement organized around this belief.

Reality check plz."

Reality check.................done.
I won't move a micron from my stance on feminism.

"Those whom use insults have a primitive mind." Well, this isn't the most serious of forums. I think that if insults are backed up by some objective scrutiny of a failed post a little amusing slander isn't that bad. Using prejudice against a person's phenotype or  his/her various alignments can go out of hand, however.

Cry more, bitches. You don't get jobs in management because women are simply too retarded for that, and this thread clearly shows it.

At least you can fuck Xel in the ass with a strap-on.

>>125
Amusing is one thing, but balant idiocy is another when the moron doesn't have backing.

>>126
I find that to be quite a troll since women are more educated than men in this day and age, more women also get through college than men. The only thing stopping women now is the glass-ceiling effect when it comes to higher positions.

...

And men are too retarded to take care of themselves and feed themselves properly without a doormat wife.

>>127
Bullshit.  The reason men and women make different amounts of money disproportionately favoring men is because all the worlds greatest entrepreneurs were men.  Bill Gates, Mr. Walton, all men. 

Men are more aggressive, and I think it has something to do with the fact that they are willing to take risks more often, and do unsafe things that they are such better entrepreneurs. 

>>128
Yeah, the statistics are blown way out of proportion due to the fact that the top most richest people are men.  Taking the top layer of rich people off, would, I think, reveal that men and women aren't all that unequal.

>>127
lol @ extremist feminists.  I always knew you hated men at your core.

"And men are too retarded to take care of themselves and feed themselves properly without a doormat wife."  -Radical Feminist

This thread is filled with teenage boys who hate women because they can't get laid.

>>123

"You're a fucking idiot. Did you even read the post?

gb2/sucking falwell's cock/"

Yes actually I did.  He was trying to say feminism is compatible with liberty, and it isn't.  I was pointing this out.  Feminism is not consistent with liberty.

>>131
This thread is filled with women who are too ugly to make $100 an hour lapdancing and feel vindictive.*
fix'd

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=59
Hey, look, its Betty Friedan!

>>132
And you completely missed the point that there are different KINDS of feminism.  Some of these are compatible with liberty.  Such as individualist feminism.

READING COMPREHENSION

>>135 B-b-b-b-but HILARY!

>>135
And you completely missed the point that >>1 was making, that 'feminism', according to the dictionary, is anti-liberty.  You have yet to address this.  Unless, of course, you feminists aren't going to advocate government intervention into the economy or personal lives of citizens in order to attain your goals and promote your feminist agenda, which is incidentally what the majority of feminists have been doing over the years.

>>136
Hillary sucks. 

>>134
Good link! Friedan was a bitch, and it doesn't surprise me that she was so anti 2nd amendment, anti self-defense, and anti gun.  Liberals tend to be that way - and Friedan was a Socialist/Marxist.

>>137 Dictionary is not same as reality. If dictionary was true then today conservatism not suck as much. Government is not anti-liberty if not preventing people things. Cultural tweaking not necessarily involve regulations. Equal rights are not issue, boundaries in minds unscalable without arbirtrary influence.

>>137
Okay.  So as said in the first post, the dictionary definition of feminism is "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes."

Excuse me, but where the fuck do you see "FORCE THEM INTO EQUALITY!" in there? 

Does achieving this equality require the use of government force then, as >>1 suggests? NO.

That is certainly one (and incorrect) way of doing it, but not the ONLY way.  Another way, the liberty compatible way, is simple advocation.  Do you know what advocation means?  It means to encourage and support.

Individualist feminists 'advocate' feminism in the same way I 'advocate' people not being complete and total idiots.  As much as I might encourage and educate them into being an intelligent and rational person, it is still their choice to remain a complete and total idiot.  Just as you can't force someone to be intelligent, you can't force them to treat the sexes equally, but in the mean time you can certainly tell them that they should without making it law.  This is what liberty minded feminism is about, changing society WITHOUT government force.

Amazingly, the first poster had a link to one of these liberty minded feminist groups, Ifeminists.com, but apparently didn't take the time to read what they were about.

>>1 came to find feminism to be anti-liberty by definition simply by his own stupid and narrow thinking.  Don't understand?  Let's try an example.

In the 2nd amendment of the US Constitution, it states that the militia is necessary to the security of a free state.  Necessary?  Oh, that means we MUST have a militia, which means every single person MUST own a gun and train with it regularly whether they want to or not.  But that would require government force, oh no.  I'm in favor of people being able to own guns for themselves if they want, but this is obviously not what being pro-gun is about.  Because there couldn't possibly be any other way of looking at it, I have detemined that being pro-gun is just anti-liberty and fascist bullshit.

Critical thinking.  You have the power.

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=feminism

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

As we can see, the feminist movement has very vague implications in that it could be either individualist or collectivist.  However, clearly, the trend is to be the latter rather than the former.  Just look at all the affirmative action and equal pay laws we see.  Forcing employers to pay women the same wages as men against their will is pretty a pretty fascist/communist thing to do.  You can 'advocate' individualist feminism all you want, but the vast majority of feminists achieve their agenda via legislation - aka ramming it down our throats through government. 

>>140
Agree, it isn't -necessarilly- fascist, but often enough it is that I don't think it would be inappropriate to label most feminists as fascists/socialists.  Yes its a generalization, but its a largely correct one.

>>140
The post was just to challenge >>1 and >>137 who seem to believe that feminism cannot be pro-liberty.

As for your point that many, perhaps most (I'm not sure if this is true) take the collectivist and anti-liberty interpretations.  Well, so the fuck what?  That's WHY you advocate the individualist type of feminism, to drown out all the communists.  Or do you just want to let them have their free reign and be unchallenged?  Or are you scared that calling yourself a feminist will make someone think you're a Marxist?  Oh god no, now you'll have a chance to actually educate someone!

For all the feminist hatred going on in here, there sure do seem to be a lot of pussies around.

Saying you're not a feminist because many other individuals who call themselves that don't agree with your ideas of it is just stupid and funnily enough, collectivistic thinking.

>>139 Guffawing Audably Oh Divine Entity That Belongs to Me no feminists are like that and you have no penis.

"Saying you're not a feminist because many other individuals who call themselves that don't agree with your ideas of it is just stupid and funnily enough, collectivistic thinking." Fucking non-fail. Have an internet.

>>130
I was being sarcastic.

I believe the majority of these guys just hate feminism because of the name itself. It has 'fem' in it. They judge the book by its cover without understanding what it means and what's inside.

fem·i·nism (fm-nzm)  Pronunciation Key   
n.
1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Feminism also sucks because it attempts to bring "equality" to the United States - but we already have it.  Feminists see "men" making more money on average than "women" - note the quotes - since these are generalizations.  Thus the women percieve there to be an imbalance, and show statistics showing that women make less money to some degree on average than men, yet fail to see that the incomes are blown far out of proportion by the fact that so many of the worlds richest people are men, thus slanting the scales in their favor.  They they push for further "equality" which naturally comes at the expense of men who are already payed more or less fairly.

Not to mention all the dumb feminists who vote for female candidates for office just because they are female - avoiding the fact that they are then just as anti-men as the anti-women crowd who would vote against said female candidate solely on the grounds that she is female.

Here is where you all say "but not all feminists are like that, lol".  This is true, but the thing is is that the vast majority of feminists are.  This would be like me saying "liberals have no regard for the 2nd amendment".  Obviously, there is some degree of truth in this - though it is a generalization.  Likewise, the same concept applies to feminists and feminism.  While there are some good ones, unfortunately "feminists" are generally bitches like I mention above, and this leads me as well as many others I know to resent them as a group.

>>139
Too bad, facts are that fascist feminazis outnumber the "individualist feminists" by such a huge degree, that many of the generalizations I have about feminists are more or less accurate. 

>>146
>>147
Fail for being collectivist scumbags.

Feminism is trademark marxism, abuse a bunch of people's fears and paranoia, use their support to get the government to support equality of ends etc..

>>148
I'm not a collectivist.

>>149
Yeah, the viewpoints of the feminists >>146 and >>147 are talking about exemplify what you are saying pretty well. 

People don't get attacked by feminism, they get counter-attacked by feminism.

>>150
You said you judge feminists as a group, not as individuals.  That is a prime attribute of collectivists.

PLEASE MAKE IT ALL STOP! THIS THREAD SHOULD BURN!

>>152
But does not necessarilly make one a collectivist.  

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=collectivist

Nowhere in the definition of 'collectivist' does it say I would be judging people by groups.  Collectivism mentions leftism, and collective ownership (communism/socialism), but fails to give any mention of judging people by groups.  You fail.

>>154 true

>>152 fail.

>>151
The modern feminist movement doesn't really have anything reasonable to counterattack, since women have equal rights.  Feminists should shut up, or at least work on a country that ACTUALLY* abuses women.  The USA isn't one of these countries. 

>>156
The US is hostile towards pregnant women and mothers. Women are also raped exponentially and abused by their own comrades in the military. Refuted.

>>157
The US is not hostile toward pregnant women and mothers.  It is not allowed in our nation to rape or abuse women in our military - this is illegal.  Nice try.

>>158
I have to side with >>157 here. http://www.advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/

"It is not allowed in our nation to rape or abuse women in our military - this is illegal."

It still happens. 1/100 men are raped and 1/10 women are raped in the military. The Pentagon tries covering it up.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/082006A.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/082605WA.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/013006J.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071406E.shtml

>>154
lol freedictionary.  Here, try a real dictionary.

http://www.webster.com/dictionary/collectivist

"2 : emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity"

You = collectivist

Quit being a baby and just admit to it.