>>517
"I have no compassion for those that shit on liberty and the ideas passed down by the founders. And I'm not a "liberal". Stop running to that word everytime you're confronted with your own inner failure. A shotgun shell has no political party."
Explain to me how I 'shit on the ideas of liberty.'
>>520
"well, first of all, the fetus doesn't even get a nervous system till, like, 12 weeks into development (fact check that, i'm not sure, but it's well into it). any sane person would have aborted the fetus by then. if people abort in the right amount of time, the zygote should have only matured a week, maybe even two at the most. at that point, it's not really anything but a group of generic cells just starting to specialise."
Exactly. And if they take so long to abort it that it gains consciousness or feeling, they are irresponsible lazy fucks, and that's tough shit if you ask me.
"the only moral debate i see in this at all are those pretty much cutting up and scooping out fetuses after the second trimester. that shit is wrong. might as well chop off the head as it comes out."
I'm not sure when life starts, but this sounds about right. I don't favor an absolute ban on all abortions, but I do favor a ban on all abortions that are performed too late in pregnancy with the exception of those done for *serious* medical reasons.
Also, since the being is partly the man's, and he is partly responsible for it, no abortion at all without his consent.
"people gotta be responsible first and formost, and nip this shit in the bud before it gets to be a real problem."
Agreed.
"sorry, but if i throw a seed into a fire, you can't say i just cut down a mighty 100 year old redwood."
Nobody is trying to say this.. I'm the big defender of human fetuses around here, and I don't say that anyhow. I have no idea where you got this idea.
"and stop any bullshit about 'you're making the child suffer for your mistake'. sorry, there's no suffering here, cause there's no pain, because there's no nervous system to know pain, let alone a conciousness attached to those nervs."
If you have an abortion while the child is too late in development, and you don't do it humanely, you *are* indeed making the unborn child suffer for *your* mistakes, and I won't budge on this.
"Pretty much, if you cant live outside the womb, and this is even with a lot of hightech medical equipment, you arent a human and shouldn't be one. not yet at least."
I disagree. The fact that one can't become independent of the mother does not mean that it is not alive. If the parents leave a young baby outside the mother, and don't feed it, it will die as well with no assistence. The simple fact that one cannot exist outside and independent of the mother does not mean life has not begun. There is more to it than this.. such as whether or not it can feel, is conscious, or can think. This is what is important, not whether or not it can live on its own yet.
"this debate is pretty much over. only the loonies who think life begins at cell division are still up in arms about this."
Correction: only radical pro-choice people are up in arms about who they *think* are 'loonies who think life begins at cell division' are still up in arms about this.
"i seriously wanna see statistics for how many abortions are preformed at what point of the development of the fetus."
15,500 abortions of fetuses that are old enough to be considered human lives occur per year, on average. That's a rough figure, and it isn't acceptable.