Your Representatives

For all those interested in promotion and protection of the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, I have found a listing of your senators and their votes regarding gun legislation for the last several years.  Check it out! Vote out those bitches that are pissing all over the 2nd amendment!

http://www.gunowners.org/cgv.htm

There should be a listing of legislation there.  If you click the name of the legislation you wish to know about, it will pull up a political map of the United States.  Just click on where you live to see which way your representatives voted. 

Enjoy, and long live the Bill of Rights.

Look at the war the states have voted. People packed into urban areas who have never seen a "wild" animal outside of the zoo are strongly anti-gun while states with wilderness remaining are strongly pro-gun. I suggest we move all the idiots to Arizona so they can be torn apart by wild dogs seeing as how they're unarmed.

>>2

This logic fails. If you're going to win this argument, just stick with the 2nd Amendment and the Bill of Rights. People don't need a fucking geography lesson. The constitution is fairly direct.

The 2nd amendment was about people being able to form militias and overthrow wannabe despots when they arose. The idea being that someone who wants to disarm everyone is afraid of what people will do to him when he pisses them off.

The trouble is people shoot each other for stupid ass reasons aswell as to prevent tyranny. I believe the solution is to have police which are answerable only to the constitution and not central government with a new amendments which states that no civilian (not a member of the police of military) may possess a fire arm unless they are licensed to do so from the regional police. Most counties will decide that a person must do a year of auxillary work in the police or have been a police person in order to have a license to own a firearm and issue the same type of license as other states. This way they can interact with them and be sure they are not going to start shooting innocents from rooftops. If a person takes a firearm to a county which does not have the same type of license then that firearm becomes illegal. Since this person has spent a year working part-time for the police they should know which counties and states they are allowed to bring their firearms to and which counties and states they must enter unarmed.

>>4
Enjoy your police state with "security". Why you fear guns? Are you that paranoid really?

>>4
you fail.

Making guns hard to get won't do anything.  People will still get ahold of them and use them, just in the same way people do with illegal drugs.

>>6
It's huge trade and you don't need to be criminal or have really any connections just know where to look you can also stumble upon it by accident if you deal with street merchants. Also many people sell their old grandfather's guns in fear of police. Less big market in UK and other island countries as harder for smugglers, but it's quite big in there too.

>>7

Just shut the fuck up. You sound like a god damn pussy. NO GUN CONTROL- PERIOD. Because it really is as simple as the despot being afraid of what people might do should they continue to take the piss. Why should we ever give up our means of resistance to ANYone? Police or special gun holders or otherwise. Weapons should be available to everyone, period. The people passing out permits and shit can not be trusted as they are apart of a beaucracy that rapes us so royally.

>>8
Umm, I'm AGAINST gun control. I just pointed out that's easier to get illegal weapons in countries with gun control than it is to get hard drugs to illustrate why it doesn't work.

>>9
Then make it work.

>>5
>>6
I have taken into account all of the factors anti gun control mention, but I reguse to ignore the real factors used by pro gun control.

1: People should have the right to bear arms to protect liberty.


If guns are banned.

Guns will inevitably be sold illegally on the black market.

Anything sold on the black market is more difficult and risky to acquire meaning that only organised criminals can acquire them without significant risk.

Since organised criminals will always have guns, citizens should be permitted to arm themselves to defend against them meaning that a gun ban is unacceptable.


If guns are not banned.

If guns are sold unrestricted at gun stores will allow citizens and unorganised criminals the possibility of acquiring guns and make it easier for organised criminals to acquire guns.

A system is needed that balances making it difficult for organised criminals to acquire guns, difficult for unorganised criminals to acquire guns and possible for citizens to acquire sufficient arms to resist criminals and tyranny.

Auxillary police work for a year in order to gain a license to possess fire arms and restrictions on the amount of guns a person can possess fulfils these criteria. People can defend themselves, crackpots don't get guns, organised criminals still have to risk their lives to get guns on the black market and oppression can be resisted by civilians.

>>11
I don't get why you have to do police work to get license. That teachs only bare basics about handling and gun safety. If guy has non-violent record why he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun?

>>11
100% fail.

The Right to Bear Arms is clearly stated in the Constitution/Bill of Rights.  That is all that's needed.  It is unconstitutional to deny law abiding citizens this basic right. 

The idea of permits for firearms is pure shit.  If it is a BASIC RIGHT, why the FUCK would you need a fucking PERMIT from someone else, most especially the GOVERNMENT, to exercise that said RIGHT?

Want to see my permit? Here's my fucking permit: 

http//www./...

>>13
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

>>12
People with violent records once did not have a non-violent record, thus having a non-violent record is not a practical indicator of responsibility.

>>15
People with violent records once had a non-violent record, thus having a non-violent record is not a practical indicator of responsibility.

oopsi ._.'

>>14
So state laws can't infringe on the 2nd amendment either? sweet. 

>>18
I acknowledge both amendment II and amendment XIV, however a balance is needed due to a contradiction. Bear in mind these are dogmas based on effects rather than induced from the facts, thus a balance is justified in relation to the utilitarian effects. The extent of this balance is the subject of debate. Amendment XIV states

"No state shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Handing out guns means that they are permitting someone the ability to take someone's life or liberty. The public should have guns, so long as the gun owners prove they will not take someone's life and liberty.

>>18
Arizona has similar clause in their constitution as 2nd amendment and is nice state in other ways too.

>>16
That kind of attidute leads to police state. Innocent until convicted is one of most basic things in free society.

>>11
>Anything sold on the black market is more difficult and risky to acquire

Shows how much you know about black market. You know I have actually dealed with black market for many times(bought legal stuff only though, but some not legal for sale) and my experience has been all, but positive. I'm not criminal nor I have connections with criminals. I bet you have also been buying from black market. Atleast if you have been traveling. Pretty impossible to avoid dealing with black market goods in poor countries.

>>21  true

>>22
Criminals always manage to get guns from other sources, anyways.  The criminals won't give up their guns.  Only the law-abiding people will.

Even if the criminals, by some miracle, couldn't get guns, they could very easilly walk into a hardware store, buy a crowbar, or something similar, and use that to commit violent acts.  Many things can be used as weapons. 

Are you for banning those things as well?  I would personally rather everyone have firearms, including the law-abiding people. 

99.8% of rapists and violent criminals surveyed claim they like their victims unarmed.

>>8

I agree.  Still, there is nothing wrong with stating more than one argument for an idea (less gun control).

>>24
I'm libertarian and totally against gun control. Maybe my post was bit misleading, but my point was to illustrate that black market is huge and restrictions only hurt law-abiding citizens.

>>22
It is difficult for the average person who is not in a criminal gang to get guns on the black market. If I went insane and decided to go on a killing spree and started asking around, most likely I would get suckerred into bringing cash to some dark alley. It is best to keep it that way.

"Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy, I'm always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I'll pull the trigger. We'll see who wins."
-- Sammy "the Bull" Gravano, mafia hit man and informant, in Vanity Fair, August 1999

>>27
No it's not... that's complete bs...

lol, straight from the horses mouth

>>my point was...that the black market is huge and restrictions only hurt law-abiding citizens.

libertarians aren't very intuitive thinkers, methinks.

>>29
I doubt it, I'd just be a goldmine in the ghetto and they'd either fuck me over or I'd do the smart thing and use a car and mow down some pedestrians.

>>29
Indeed. Beauty of black market is that they don't care, as long us you got cash they will sell you and they don't mug paying customers for a reason.

>>33
They mug paying customers, becuase usually they don't have any wares and weere just luring them in with cash.

The only way to get people to sell you stuff is to promise future deals and leave a few armed men concealed outside and bring a few in with you as a deterant. A psycho who is not a member of an armed gang cannot do this.

>>34
Tell me why I haven't been mugged when I have dealed with mafia dealers in Russia or illegal street dealers in Turkey? I have only good experiences about them. They sell all manners of things. Black market is non-regulated and non-taxpaying market. They don't always even sell guns and drugs at all, although they do often have something hidden should someone be interested as I noticed when I asked for air rifles from one russian merchant and he offered me an AK47. Besides even acerage citizens sell often illegal guns they have somehow acquired(typically grandfather's possessions) and want to get rid of them as they're illegal.

>>35
Because they have a reputation to uphold and you only bought things which cost $5 a piece, not worth a police investigation over. It is also evident fr omthe structure of your writing that you are an active homo-sexual, which explains fully why you are obsessed with phallus shaped guns such as the AK47.

>>34
That's not true.  Just like any businessman, they want your business for future dealings, and they know they won't get it unless you are satisfied.

They would treat you quite well, I'm sure... as long as you payed.

>>37
How can they be sure you are not a cop?

There is one single thing about the gun issue that I would like answered... The context of the owners. How does the surrounding culture influence whether the guns are used in a defensive or purely destructive manner? How does education levels influence interdomestic use of guns? I don't want to have a prejudice, I just want to know which factors need to be taken into account.

>>35
Yeah, I'm an active homosexual and I love guns. Got something against that?
>>38
How can they be sure that criminal isn't cop or is criminal at all? It's risky business and if they started randomly mugging people they would lose all their customers as rumors would spread quickly. Especially among criminals you mentioned.

>>39
Guns itself are just tools, but it's true that culture does affect their use in crime, but causes of it are always something else. Violence is cultural and socieconomic that has no relation with guns. Education levels don't seem to really matter that much as social and economic standing. Badly educated country living rednecks rarely use their guns in crime, while white and black city trash do most of gun related crimes in America.

>>41
Other people committing lots of crimes with guns is all the more reason the law abiding people of the nation should carry them for self-defense.

>>41 Probably due to stress levels, the proximity to other people, the inferior schools in poor neighbourhoods, and let's not forget the self-victimizing and violence-glorifying gangsta culture. Also, the scarier a hood, the more likely one is to join a gang, which only makes the area more unsafe. Crazy.

>>43
Yes, people need to stop idolizing "gangsta" type people.  What the hell is wrong with children today? When I was young, I looked up to intellectual/intelligent figures... not thugs and dipshits.

Gun-control is stupid.