Abortion

I live in LA and right now, they are trying to pass a bill outlawing all abortions with the exception that it was cause by rape or incest and if it jeprodizes the mothers life.

Why is the government compromized mainly of white, old men who represent a small amount of the population. I don't think men should be able to make laws governing what a woman does with her body. I see early term abortions as getting rid of some very unwanted cells growing in ones body. What if I don't have the means of raising a child, what if I don't have the time to take away  from school to go through a few months of hell only to give up a child who makes me exponentially uglier and looser, what if I'm a crackwhore who would only make the child grow up the be fuck up and have a horrible, depressing life like all those /b/tards. I'm really scared that this law will be passed seeing how I live in a backwards, uber consevative state.

And also, North Caroline (maybe South I forget) is trying to pass a bill to ban all abortions that don't jeprodize the mothers lifes. WTF?

>>40
BUT I WANT TO FUCK EVERYTHING IN SIGHT AND NOT WORRY ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES!

>>40

yes. you patriarchal male chauvinist. who are you to say we shouldn't make the act of procreation into our plaything? fucking religous fanatics.

secular government helps its people, not some unborn fetus. pro-choice instead of reinforcing your religous view on people.   assholes. 

>>42
Not religious.  We've been over this.

High economic freedom, yet low personal freedom. Top_Cat is a scary guy.

Guys, UTOPIA is this way --->

I just have a quick point.  The arguement I most often hear from the pro-choice side, is that abortion gives women the right to choose.  However, aside from the extreme cases such as rape, hasn`t the woman already made her choice when she had sex?

>>45

No.

>>43

Who cares if you're not religious, dipshit? The patrirachal male chauvinist shit applies. Father doesn't fucking know best- he tried that remember? And turns out dad is a fucking idiot.

>>47
Needs more use of the word "fucking."

Still nobody has answered my question.  If a fetus is not a human, then what is it?

The only answer I have seen so far is "it is a bunch of cells".  Everything is a bunch of cells. 

So if a fetus is a human being, is there any human that can live off of the efforts of an unwilling party? 

>>49

It's a parasite.

Yeah, I said it.

True, but most humans are, reguardless of age, amirite?

>>45 yes

and that's the point i'm trying to make.

sex is thaere to make babies, so if you're going to go around having casual sex, be prepared to face the consequenses.

given the exceptions for rape, all you're aguing with pro-aborion isn't thre right to make a choice, it's the right to make a choice and not deal with the consequenses of it.

and declaring that unborn lives are worth nothing, or at least they aren't worth enough to have the mother go though the birthing process.

"i just killed an unborn human being, but at least a don't have stretch marks!"

you're not arguing for human rights, you're arguing for murder for the sake of removing personal resposibility.

let me guess, if you were to go without your seat belt, and say, lose an arm in a crash, despite the fact that maybe you should have strapped yourself in, it should be okay to rip somone's arm off before they even know what's happening and sow it on yourself right?

Since the other choice to abortion is adoption, are YOU going to pay for this baby upbringing when the mother doesn't want it?  There's plenty of children out there who need a good home.

>>53 personally i think both parties involved with the creation of said child should be the ones supporting that child, they're the ones who created that child in the first place.

adoption is another easy way out, which, come to think of it, probably shouldn't be so easy. the act of abandoning a child should be taken with less open arms. maybe fines for abandoning at an orphanage. it's a crime to abandon a child any other way, so shouldn't they at least be forced to pay for the convinience of anding that baby off?

this is about personal responsibility, if you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

there are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.

While I agree that people are slutty, I hope you know that birth control is not 100% effective or do they not teach about birth control in your neck of the woods.  Going the adoption route is NOT abandonment.  I think it takes great courage for them to give their child up to another family because they know that they cannot take care of the child.  And I'm not talking about people who just dump their children at a church.  I'm talking about people who do it the right way.

Unless you have adopted some of needy children in the overburdened system, who are you to tell other people not to get an abortion?

>>55

pah! questioning my morality when you try to justify the killing of unborn children for the sake of convienience?

and while surrendering a child for adoption may be a much better alternative, here's the best route, and i'm going to repeat it a few times because apparently you missed it the first time:

If you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

There are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.


If you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

There are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.

If you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

There are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.

>>47
"Father doesn't fucking know best"
Mother doesn't seem to know much either, from what I've seen.

>>56

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE UNBORN.  WORRY ABOUT THE CHILDREN THAT ARE HERE RIGHT NOW!

>>58

does that somehow mean it's okay to "dispose" of children in some way to evade responsibilites resulting from casual sex?

or more likely, is this just a total dodge of the issue?

>>59
It means baby is the new white meat. Mmmmm babeh.

The vast majority of pro-lifers are pro-lifers because their church told them to be.  Just like many pro-choicers, they choose their sides without thinking it over.  "I'm pro-choice because my political party will say I'm not affiliated with them if I'm pro-life." 

"Life begins at conception".  Typical oversimplified concept designed to tug at emotions rather than reason.  What is life?  When you rinse your mouth with Listerine or whatever, the alcohol is killing thousands of microorganisms in your mouth.  You're committing "murder".  These microorganisms aren't human life, but is a newly concieved cell "life"?  The bacteria in your mouth are probably more complex than the single cell we start out as.  A newly concieved cell is just a terribly fragile membrane bound sack of DNA and the mother's mitochondria.  Ignore the cascade of events that lead to the cell's development.  How is that single cell treated as "life" in equality to a fully developed infant?

Now we progress further into the zygote's development.  When will it be considered "life"?  Is it when it forms a blastocyst (which is when a stem cell researcher would cultivate)?  When it develops body segments?  When it differentiates a myocardium?  How about when its heart starts beating?  When its CNS is developed enough for it to feel pain? 

Then there's a question of dependency.  The fetus depends on its mother for survival.  Does the mother have the power to cut off the support she's granting?  Does an elderly patient in palliative care have the right to die at his or her children's discretion?  Both the elderly patient and the fetus have neither the capacity to speak for themselves, nor do they have the capacity to live without outside support.

>>61
Also forgot to mention: if abortions are illegal, then why not imprison mothers who have miscarriages?  Miscarriages are abortions.  The only difference is whether it's voluntary or involuntary.  Voluntary, go to the clinic and have the abortion.  Involuntary...well, a genetic hiccup on the fetal end, or pain killers/alcohol/smoking/obesity/whatever on the mother's (arguably voluntary). 

Should this be viewed in the same way as manslaughter?  Let's look at the difference in prison sentences.  Voluntary manslaughter: up to 15 years.  Involuntary: possibly nothing.  So if a mother consumes alcohol, smokes, or is overweight during pregnancy - is this voluntary manslaughter?

Sorry, posts >>1-62 are tl;dr but let me just ask this.

Conceding the point that abortion is manslaughter...what's so bad about that? Given the rising poplation problems aren't any solutions that work towards reducing the population better than nothing?

>>59

You're the one dodging the issue.  Why don't you take care of the children that we (the society) DO have instead of worrying about children we MIGHT have?  Can't answer that one, can you?  What have you done lately for the these precious children that you care about?  It's pretty easy sitting there damning everybody.

Pro-choice doesn't mean everybody is going to get abortions.  It just means you have that option available if and when you need it.  There are plenty of Pro-choicers who don't have abortions.

Unwanted children become unwanted people.
Check abortion rates against crime rates from about 20 years later. You'll notice something.

>>65
correlation, causation, etc.
check abortion rates against inflation.

Like it was said before, abstinance is the only method that 100% affective for not concieving - even the most sure proof methods like IUDS are not entirely 100% foolproof. And if your telling me to stop having sex, forget it - only someone who doesn't have the means of getting good sex is going to tell me that even though I practice very safe sex yet don't have the means of having a child that I should stop having sex because if by some freak accident I got pregnant I would in fact get an abortion. And I am not having "casual sex", I have one partner that I have been with for a decent amount of time.

>>67

Get married.

Abort everything.  Man, woman, child.  It doesn't matter who.  It doesn't matter how old they are.

Right, >>68, getting married would solve everything. I don't even know what to say to that moronic response. More than 1/5 of abortions are by women who are married.

So, that means that 4/5 of abortions are done by those who are single.

Abortion being banned now can basically be blamed on Bush being in office. Bush has sucessfully appointed too pretty conservative people to the court and the swing vote in Roe Vs Wade , Ruth Ginsburgh(sp?), has said she is considering retiring. If she retires while Bush is office or while another jack ass (Republican) is in office we can see some terrible changes coming to America

>>71 Wow, your math skills are impeccible. Fucking idiot.

>>73 had 10 abortions.
 

>>74
12 if you count the 2 miscarriages caused by valium and alcohol.

I'm curious if these bans would include the selling of the morning after pill - which would be ridiculous because the morning after pill is just a slightly higher dose of birth control.

ya just can't let go of your sex, can you? my argument is that if your recreational sex creates life, you should have to deal with it, simple is that. can you REALLY say you angle is anything other than wanting to be able to remove personal resposibility?

and telling me i should take resposibility for unwanted babies as a result? i'm not the one who used sex as a toy. instead of pointing a finger at me, for wanting these unborn humans to be slaughterd in the name of nothing other than convienience and comfort, try looking at the people who are CREATING these unwanted babies in the first place.

>>76 "try looking at the people who are CREATING these unwanted babies in the first place."


Yeah, go look at who needs this to not be passed - young girls who don't know better who have there whole life ahead of them, women who are just getting their career started and don't have their life fully situated, women who don't have someone that can support and help them when they can't help themselves. Some of these women who want/need an abortion will go to any lengths to make it happen. And if this law was to be passed, women who don't have the money to travel might go about getting an abortion in an unsafe way. Do you want these women to risk their lives?

Sex is not only for what you call recreational or procreation - it's human behaviour; for me it's affection, showing my absolute love, and relieving stress. I'm sure your limp dick/sandpaper vagina has never touched anything but your loving hand if you are saying that I can't just let go of sex. Either that or you are asexual (that's not meant to be a mean remark, some have no sex drive). And I do hold personally responsibility in what I am doing, that is why I practice sex in the safest way possible - but even with that, there is this tiny margin of women who by some freak accident still get pregnant. That's why, if by that small chance, it happened to me - I would want to know that if I really can't deal with it for whatever reason, I could get an abortion.

So you basically want to have a backup plan since you have no actual self-control?  Do you hate yourself so much that you would kill a life inside you just because you don`t think you could deal with it?

Well, there's another option to just have your tubes tied.  Then you could have all the sex you want without any of the consequences.  Same goes for guys, it's really a quicker procedure on them (outpatient and local, as opposed to inpatient and general for women)

I`m sorry if what I say offends you, but it does seem that you may hate yourself if you think the only way to show your love is to make love, and believe that you have no control over that aspect of your life.

>>78
seconded. you ALWAYS have the option of not having sex.

going back to the abortions illegalized by this law, it only cuts off abortions to those who can't deal with the consequenses of thier actions and want to kill the baby to save themselves of a burden they brought upon themselves.

>>78
>>79

The '50s called.  They want you back.

I think metal coat hangers will be in vogue soon.