Abortion

I live in LA and right now, they are trying to pass a bill outlawing all abortions with the exception that it was cause by rape or incest and if it jeprodizes the mothers life.

Why is the government compromized mainly of white, old men who represent a small amount of the population. I don't think men should be able to make laws governing what a woman does with her body. I see early term abortions as getting rid of some very unwanted cells growing in ones body. What if I don't have the means of raising a child, what if I don't have the time to take away  from school to go through a few months of hell only to give up a child who makes me exponentially uglier and looser, what if I'm a crackwhore who would only make the child grow up the be fuck up and have a horrible, depressing life like all those /b/tards. I'm really scared that this law will be passed seeing how I live in a backwards, uber consevative state.

And also, North Caroline (maybe South I forget) is trying to pass a bill to ban all abortions that don't jeprodize the mothers lifes. WTF?

I'M A NIGGA LADY I LOVES ME SOME ABORTIONS

>>2

You joke, but nationalizing people bodies and shit? = One step closer to the BAD kind of communism.

I'm glad you say LA- as in Louisana. Because I live in Los Angeles and nearly pissed myself. Your only option is to get the fuck out of the hick states.

>>3
Devaluing human life = one step closer to totalitarianism.

>>4

Then I guess we've teetered over the edge because we don't value life whatsoever and haven't truly valued it for thousands of years. Not letting women remove a growth from their womb isn't going to change that.

And let me guess- you're for captial punishment right?

Fucking moron.

>>5
Nope.  Lock them up and throw away the key.  Besides, the capital punishment argument doesn't r eally work...  A fetus has committed no crime.  A grown person who's in jail and on death row HAS. 

I'm not for the war or anything.  I don't believe war's an acceptable way to solve your problems except when the enemy is bringing the fight to you.  But still, it's a little different than what I'm talking about.

In war, there's a precedent of honor, valor, all those stupid things.  They give meaning and value to deaths in combat, and combat deaths are usually accompanied by some ceremony, at least to make the people involved feel better about it.

With all this eugenics and genetic engineering, there's no remorse.  Not even consideration.  People as objects, to be manipulated as the experimenter sees fit.

>>6
BTW, I think it's worth noting that I'm "Nice Racist" from the race thread.

>>6
Note: They're not people, they are clumps of cells which have the potential to grow into nearly anything. Saying "oh but it could be a person" is stupid as it could also be come a frog through (albeit a lot) genetic modification.

>>8
then why in California did a recent murder case (ie Scott Petterson) he get convicted for a double count of murder for killing his wife and un-born fetus. Clearly a fetus is considered a living human by the courts.

>>9
It all depends on the age of the 'baby'. If it has just recently been fertalized then it is as I refered to it in >>8; however, if it is more than a month or two old then yes, it should be consitered human, or human-like at the very least.

Most abortion - about 97 percent - happen within the first 2 trimesters, and about 74 percent happen in the first trimester. About 1 in 3 women in the US will have at least one abortion in their lifetime - I've seen this number even higher on some .org sites. No birth control method is 100% full proof but abstinance. Abortions will happen no matter what the law may be. Making a law like the one trying to be passed in my backwards ass state will only put the health and safety of many women at risk - the ones who will go to any length to get an abortion. Should women without the means to have a child get an abortion in  an unsterile and unsafe environment? Should more children be thrown into the adoption system while so many other children are waiting for a family?

And some of the people rallying for this shitty law are hypocrites. I have a family friend who's parents are strict pro-lifers and even go protest in front of the abortion clinics. The second their unmarried, young daughter gets pregnant, they can bend their beliefs and insist she get an abortion - they didn't want their reputation as a good christian family to be tarnished.

>>6


Capital Punishment argument works when you bring the "sancitity of life" into the mix. I say: Kill them all. Born and Unborn.

I'd rather that they kill the niggers while the can't steal my bike than when they can.

>>13

you never even had a bike, did you?

>>13
*hugs* poor e-racist, don't worry, we'll buy you a new one with our mootxico monies. ;_;

>>15
Wouldn't that be someone who believes in erasing things?  o_O;

I can see it now, this is what's going to happen:  all the retarded southern and midwestern states will successfully outlaw abortion and make a ton of other retarded laws that revoke people's freedom, then all the non-religious people with half a brain in their heads will slowly but surely migrate to other states.  The conservative states will collapse due to a lack of intelligent people and a sheer lack of people in general, and, well, things will have to change.  I've got to admit, it'll be funny watching entire states full of retards going down in flames.

>>17
Orson Scott Card suggested this.

In which book? The "Fringe Folk"? (Not sure if that's the name) or Ender's game?

>>9
The reason is because the court made a very stupid judgement that does not tackle in any way the rationality of the declaration made by the the poster you quoted.

only blacks should be allowed the priviledge of abortion

>>17

Lol @ undeserved egotism. 

You are probably just another community college dipshit who fancies himself an intellectual.

For the women of South Dakota: an abortion manual

http//mollys/...

>>22

you know what...people who consider themselves intellectual are annoying. but I think I favor a bunch of people TRYING to be smart over a bunch of people living FOR stupidity

Real quick argument of allowing a form of abortion even if life begins at conception:

If we assume that life begins at conception then the child is deserving of rights afforded to adults, including the right to life.  This is the typical start of the pro-life movement, but they do not explore this side fully.  Now does an adult have the right to live off another when that person does not want it?  This is clearly not a right that adults have, so why should an unborn human have it?

Now it is clear that the mother can get remove/evict the child,  but there should probably some limitations to how you can do this.  Think of this analogy, a person walks on to your lawn and starts living there.  Do you have the right to shoot him in the head?  Probably not, unless this person poses a threat to you, your family, or your property.  But you could begin by asking him to leave.  So for abortion this means that you would be able to remove the child, but you couldn't actively kill it, such as in some of the ways horrific ways described by the pro-life movement that I won't go into. 

>>25 Now does an adult have the right to live off another when that person does not want it?  This is clearly not a right that adults have

lol, somebody tell the twenty million negers on welfare.

>>25
the fetus is not an adult, it's a child, you moron.

>>27 It's neither; it's a bunch of tissue, you moron

>>28
that depends on who you ask, you moron.

>>29
Only as mush as your own comment does, you dumbass.

>>30
That post didn't even make any sense, you sad bastard.

Disagreeing with abortion when the foetus is only a bunch of cells is made of totalitarianism and fail.

I bet y'all anti-abortion faggots eat eggs.

>>I bet y'all anti-abortion faggots eat eggs.

You fail it so hard.

That’s like saying people who are against murder shouldn’t eat fish, which only makes sense if you if you are some PETA bitch.

Not to mention the eggs people eat are unfertilized. But what do you care? You’re just some emo kid who calls everything he doesn’t like “totalitarianism” hoping that people will not realize what a simpleton you are.

>>32
Everything is just a bunch of cells.  If a fetus is not human, then what is it?  If

>>27
A child can only have the same rights as an adult.  So a child just like an adult does not have the right to live off of and unwilling person.  This does NOT mean that the unwilling person has the right to do anything they want with the child.  The guardian of the child must take reasonable steps to finding someone to take care of the child.  Yes I know this last statement is very vague, but there really is no objective way of determining what are reasonable steps to take.  The actual terms of reasonable steps are best handled by common law

You are a bunch of cells.  Let's kill you.  It isn't murder; you're just a bunch of cells.

Someone please make a good argument for abortion so we can have a decent debate.

The Church should adopt all the orphans in the world and then talk about abortion.  Let's just hope none of the kids get molested.  You know how the priests are...

All children should be aborted.

>>38
In before...

let's see here, there are eceptions for rape, incest, and if it threatens the life of the woman giving birth.

so, what are we so worried about with this? all that's left is intentional births, and women who go around having casual sex.

should it be okay to kill unborn children just because you happen to choose to make the act of procreation into your plaything?

>>40
BUT I WANT TO FUCK EVERYTHING IN SIGHT AND NOT WORRY ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES!

>>40

yes. you patriarchal male chauvinist. who are you to say we shouldn't make the act of procreation into our plaything? fucking religous fanatics.

secular government helps its people, not some unborn fetus. pro-choice instead of reinforcing your religous view on people.   assholes. 

>>42
Not religious.  We've been over this.

High economic freedom, yet low personal freedom. Top_Cat is a scary guy.

Guys, UTOPIA is this way --->

I just have a quick point.  The arguement I most often hear from the pro-choice side, is that abortion gives women the right to choose.  However, aside from the extreme cases such as rape, hasn`t the woman already made her choice when she had sex?

>>45

No.

>>43

Who cares if you're not religious, dipshit? The patrirachal male chauvinist shit applies. Father doesn't fucking know best- he tried that remember? And turns out dad is a fucking idiot.

>>47
Needs more use of the word "fucking."

Still nobody has answered my question.  If a fetus is not a human, then what is it?

The only answer I have seen so far is "it is a bunch of cells".  Everything is a bunch of cells. 

So if a fetus is a human being, is there any human that can live off of the efforts of an unwilling party? 

>>49

It's a parasite.

Yeah, I said it.

True, but most humans are, reguardless of age, amirite?

>>45 yes

and that's the point i'm trying to make.

sex is thaere to make babies, so if you're going to go around having casual sex, be prepared to face the consequenses.

given the exceptions for rape, all you're aguing with pro-aborion isn't thre right to make a choice, it's the right to make a choice and not deal with the consequenses of it.

and declaring that unborn lives are worth nothing, or at least they aren't worth enough to have the mother go though the birthing process.

"i just killed an unborn human being, but at least a don't have stretch marks!"

you're not arguing for human rights, you're arguing for murder for the sake of removing personal resposibility.

let me guess, if you were to go without your seat belt, and say, lose an arm in a crash, despite the fact that maybe you should have strapped yourself in, it should be okay to rip somone's arm off before they even know what's happening and sow it on yourself right?

Since the other choice to abortion is adoption, are YOU going to pay for this baby upbringing when the mother doesn't want it?  There's plenty of children out there who need a good home.

>>53 personally i think both parties involved with the creation of said child should be the ones supporting that child, they're the ones who created that child in the first place.

adoption is another easy way out, which, come to think of it, probably shouldn't be so easy. the act of abandoning a child should be taken with less open arms. maybe fines for abandoning at an orphanage. it's a crime to abandon a child any other way, so shouldn't they at least be forced to pay for the convinience of anding that baby off?

this is about personal responsibility, if you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

there are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.

While I agree that people are slutty, I hope you know that birth control is not 100% effective or do they not teach about birth control in your neck of the woods.  Going the adoption route is NOT abandonment.  I think it takes great courage for them to give their child up to another family because they know that they cannot take care of the child.  And I'm not talking about people who just dump their children at a church.  I'm talking about people who do it the right way.

Unless you have adopted some of needy children in the overburdened system, who are you to tell other people not to get an abortion?

>>55

pah! questioning my morality when you try to justify the killing of unborn children for the sake of convienience?

and while surrendering a child for adoption may be a much better alternative, here's the best route, and i'm going to repeat it a few times because apparently you missed it the first time:

If you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

There are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.


If you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

There are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.

If you can't afford to care for a child, DON'T MAKE THE BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

There are other forms of entertainment aside from sex, and if you can't choose another one, the least you could do is take resposibility for the results.

>>47
"Father doesn't fucking know best"
Mother doesn't seem to know much either, from what I've seen.

>>56

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE UNBORN.  WORRY ABOUT THE CHILDREN THAT ARE HERE RIGHT NOW!

>>58

does that somehow mean it's okay to "dispose" of children in some way to evade responsibilites resulting from casual sex?

or more likely, is this just a total dodge of the issue?

>>59
It means baby is the new white meat. Mmmmm babeh.

The vast majority of pro-lifers are pro-lifers because their church told them to be.  Just like many pro-choicers, they choose their sides without thinking it over.  "I'm pro-choice because my political party will say I'm not affiliated with them if I'm pro-life." 

"Life begins at conception".  Typical oversimplified concept designed to tug at emotions rather than reason.  What is life?  When you rinse your mouth with Listerine or whatever, the alcohol is killing thousands of microorganisms in your mouth.  You're committing "murder".  These microorganisms aren't human life, but is a newly concieved cell "life"?  The bacteria in your mouth are probably more complex than the single cell we start out as.  A newly concieved cell is just a terribly fragile membrane bound sack of DNA and the mother's mitochondria.  Ignore the cascade of events that lead to the cell's development.  How is that single cell treated as "life" in equality to a fully developed infant?

Now we progress further into the zygote's development.  When will it be considered "life"?  Is it when it forms a blastocyst (which is when a stem cell researcher would cultivate)?  When it develops body segments?  When it differentiates a myocardium?  How about when its heart starts beating?  When its CNS is developed enough for it to feel pain? 

Then there's a question of dependency.  The fetus depends on its mother for survival.  Does the mother have the power to cut off the support she's granting?  Does an elderly patient in palliative care have the right to die at his or her children's discretion?  Both the elderly patient and the fetus have neither the capacity to speak for themselves, nor do they have the capacity to live without outside support.

>>61
Also forgot to mention: if abortions are illegal, then why not imprison mothers who have miscarriages?  Miscarriages are abortions.  The only difference is whether it's voluntary or involuntary.  Voluntary, go to the clinic and have the abortion.  Involuntary...well, a genetic hiccup on the fetal end, or pain killers/alcohol/smoking/obesity/whatever on the mother's (arguably voluntary). 

Should this be viewed in the same way as manslaughter?  Let's look at the difference in prison sentences.  Voluntary manslaughter: up to 15 years.  Involuntary: possibly nothing.  So if a mother consumes alcohol, smokes, or is overweight during pregnancy - is this voluntary manslaughter?