Arabia

It was around the 8th century that the middle east was a massive hub of trade and culture, with great cities of enormous wealth and architecture, a developed system of mathematics and astronomy, and military defenses that were formidable to the europeans in the middle ages. 

Why did it all go to shit?  Sure the Crusades kicked their ass, but why has  the region around Iraq and Afhganistan devolved to third world status?  Why can't they regain their advanced culture of trade, education, and science?   What would happen if they were brought back to being a culture of math and astronomy with thriving universities?    

>>1

One word:

ISLAM

>>2

Don't worry. christianity is doing the same thing to America right now as well.

Islam came in the 7th century.  The 8th century saw international trade, studying and developing Algebra, literature and mythology like the Arabian Nights.  All the stereotypical notions of Arabia like thriving bazaars and harems owned by rich kings are from around that time.  Islam could have existed peacefully at the time and still allowed a floruishing culture.  Even Christianity was violent and widespread from 1 AD onward, but remains peaceful and civilized with most of North America and Europe. 

>>3

Must have missed all the American women in burkas, and when's the next shooting scheduled at any local stadiums? Yeah OK those evil christians are at it again 9.9

next thing you know they'll be flying planes into buildings and stuff.

Actually the Islamic rennaissance began in the 13th century with the Egyptian Caliphate.

So why did the middle east go to shit?

>>5
Stuff like abortion clinics? and >>3 said "is doing" not "has done".

>>7
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/mufti.html
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
This guy.

>>9
The islamic world was way behind the Europeans before that... I think it's the fucked up "bureaucracy" in the Osman Empire which kept the whole state feudal, non-industrialized. And since the Osman Empire was the most advanced muslim state for hundreds of years, all the others followed it... there are exceptions like Malakka but hey, they were destroyed pretty easily so who cares

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention Persia, which actually had a democratically elected President, just until the CIA decided to "replace" him with the Shah

>>8

huh? So abortion was responsible for all the greatest scientific achievements of the 20th century?

All this time I was mistakenly under the belief it was a bunch of *Christian* and *Jewish* scientists.

Tsk, tsk Arabia used to be the keeper of old Greek culture and let's not forget that they also added to the world's medical knowlege.

The 1998 Fatwa was signed by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and others.

It lists three grievances:

1. U.S. occupation of the Arabian Peninsula.

"First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless."

2. U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people.

"Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation. So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors."

3. U.S. support of Israel.

"Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula."

These three grievances are the motives for al-Qaeda's attacks.

All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries.

The fatwa quotes shaykh of al-Islam, "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque [in Jerusalem] and the holy mosque [in Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim."
Note: The above sentence is often quoted by U.S. officials using only the part in green with the part in red (the reasons why) omitted. See Intelligence
Full text of the 1998 Fatwa bellow.
The cover story that Bush feeds the American people robs the American people of the chance to decide for themselves if they want to continue to be put in harm's way over specific foreign polices. See Link: Bush Lied to the American People about 9/11 Terrorists' Motives

Below are quotes from bin Laden that make it clear what the motives for 9/11 were. See also Motives for 9/11 Terrorist Attacks

this is a message that must be heard. you can help promoting or funding
Motives for 9/11 Terrorist Attacks

Question: What do you seek?

Osama bin Ladin: What I seek is what is right for any living being. We demand that our land be liberated from enemies. That our lands be liberated from the Americans. These living beings have been given an inner sense that rejects any intrusions [of their lands] by outsiders.

Let us take an example of poultry. Let us look at a chicken, for example. If an armed person was to enter a chicken's home with the aim of inflicting harm to it, the chicken would automatically fight back. - Interview Osama bin Ladin gave to Al-Jazeera Arab television channel in 1998 http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_aljazeera.htm

Question: What is the meaning of your call for Muslims to take arms against America in particular, and what is the message that you wish to send to the West in general?

Osama bin Ladin: The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target. And not exempt of responsibility are those Western regimes whose presence in the region offers support to the American troops there. We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. - Osama bin Laden answers questions posed to him by some of his followers at his mountaintop camp in southern Afghanistan. May 1998

John Miller: Mr. bin Laden, you have issued a fatwah calling on Muslims to kill Americans where they can, when they can. Is that directed at all Americans, just the American military, just the Americans in Saudi Arabia?

Osama bin Ladin: Allah has ordered us to glorify the truth and to defend Muslim land, especially the Arab peninsula ... against the unbelievers. After World War II, the Americans grew more unfair and more oppressive towards people in general and Muslims in particular. ... The Americans started it and retaliation and punishment should be carried out following the principle of reciprocity, especially when women and children are involved. Through history, American has not been known to differentiate between the military and the civilians or between men and women or adults and children. Those who threw atomic bombs and used the weapons of mass destruction against Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the Americans. Can the bombs differentiate between military and women and infants and children? America has no religion that can deter her from exterminating whole peoples. Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. - Part of the mountaintop camp interview in May 1998. ABC reporter John Miller is videotaped asking questions of bin Laden. http//w/...
   

Promote the Truth


Get the word out to your fellow citizens.
Also this message:

cover Tell Me Lies: Propaganda and Media Distortion in the Attack on Iraq by David Miller (Editor) "The use by the British and US governments of lies, distortion and misrepresentation to justify their war on Iraq was largely echoed and amplified by the media of those countries" - Des Freedman Chapter 8 "Misreporting War Has a Long History" p63 of Tell Me lies Other chapters by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk, Edward Herman, Mark Thomas, Mark Steel, Phillip Knightley, Tim Llewelyn (BBC Middle East Correspondent), Abdul Hadi Jiad (Iraqi journalist fired by the BBC before the war), David Cromwell and David Edwards (Media Lens), Mark Curtis, John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton, Pat Holland, Norman Solomon and others. Buy Tell Me Lies
with Amazon
or
Buy Tell Me Lies
with Powell's

NEW
cover

Hegemony or Survival:
America's Quest for Global Dominance
Buy Hegemony or Survival
with Amazon
or
Buy Hegemony or Survival
with Powell's
War Crimes & Imperial Fantasies

War Crimes & Imperial Fantasies
The New War on Terrorism

New War on Terrorism
other Books &CDs

Promote the Truth


Get the word out to your fellow citizens.
Also this message:
1998 Fatwa
source
Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.
No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:
First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors. Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.
All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."
This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"
We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.
Almighty God said: "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."
Almighty God also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."
Almighty God also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."

>>12

huh? So the World Trade Center was responsible for all the greatest scientific achievements of the 20th century?

>http//w/...
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Timeline:
1941: The last Shah of Iran establishes oil trade with the US and Britain after WWII.  The SAVAK secret police work to eradicate all opposition to the Shah.  US Presidents continue to support him.
1951: the CIA instigates a coup against Mossadegh, the prime minister of Iran, for embargoing oil from the US and UK. 
1963: Ruhollah Khomeini, a fundamentalist, denounces the Shah for being backed by the US and Israel, and gathers support for a rebellion.
1963: The CIA start a military coup in Iraq that puts the Baath party in power, allowing Saddam Hussein to rise in power.  Iraq is supported by the US as a buffer to the Soviet Union.
1978: The Iranian Revolution starts as the majority of Iranians are pissed off at the Shah's oppressive reign and corruption and allows Khomeini to become Ayatollah of Iran.  Every Friday since, massive groups of Iranians chant "Death to Amerikkka!"
1979-1989: The Soviets invade Afghanistan.  Jimmy Carter authorizes the CIA to use covert propaganda and provide arms and training to the Afghan Mujahideen in order to fight the Soviets.  Osama Bin Laden, a wealthy Saudi, funnels arms and troops into Afghanistan with his MAK organization.  
1980-88: The Iran-Iraq war.  After continued border disputes, Saddam attacks Iran for its ports and land, and does not want his own Shi'a citizens to revolt against him or ally with Iran.  The CIA helps Saddam destroy targets with satellite photos, but the Iranians drive back Saddam's forces.
1986: Americans in Lebanon are taken hostage by Iran.  After a failed rescue operation, President Carter's term is over, and President Reagan sells arms to Iran in exchange for hostages without the approval of Congress.
1996: The Taliban gain power over the rival Mujahideen in Afghanistan.
1997: The Taliban negotiate with the US to build an oil pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan. 
1998: Bombings of US embassies attributed to bin Laden.  Osama bin Laden signs a Fatwa against the United States.
2005: President of Iran wants Israel wiped off the face of the map.  The US identifies several potential hidden nuclear weapons sites.
2010: Iran sends a nuclear missile into New York City and Washington D.C.  US bases in Iraq and Afghanistan send troops to Iran, but are overhwhelmed by sheer numbers.  The US asks for help from neighboring countries, but is laughed at by the French.
2011: The Top Secret "Mount Weather" underground complex is used for the first time, temporarily relocating the US capitol to Bluemont, Virginia.  The Norad base in Colorado plans a nuclear strike on Iran, but finds it has an inoperable, outdated arsenal.
2012: The Mayan calendar ends, starting the Fifth Era of mankind.  The Earth's magnetic poles reverse, causing an era of peace until Peter the Roman becomes Pope.
2015:  The 17th Angel, Kaoru, descends upon the Earth and starts  his homoerotic advances on a young boy.
2018:  The twelve headed beast rises from the sea and marks all of humanity, denouncing Christianity and causing all nations to live happily while 1/4 of the Earth's population is destroyed from famine, pestilence, war, death, and beasts of the Earth.
2035:  An eighty foot tall Jesus made of pure brass walks the Earth and kills The Beast, creates a new Heaven and a new Earth.    People bask in the light of Jesus for 1,000 years, then die.
3035: The Earth no longer feels the burden of mankind. 
10,333: The Sun becomes extinguished, ceasing life on Earth.
0: Shiva destroys the universe and creates it once more.
13 Trillion trillion trillion trillion: Xenu becomes intergalactic emperor and battles Nyarlathotep for dominance of the cosmos.     


 

The US is great at creating its own enemies.  That's what you get for having short sighted goals in short presidential terms.

>>10
Yeah but without him they would've come back around.
Think of it this way, imagine if the Christian answer to George Bush's is to elect the ghosts of Popes Innocent 3 and 8.

>>18
Had to be done. Imagine if all the propoganda your marxist overlords spout was true. It happenned, in soviet Russia and is currently happenning in Cuba and North Korea and may well happen in Venezuela, Libya and the Phillipines if we end CIA involvement in those countries. The US isn't imperialist, we are letting Brazil handle the subterfuge in Bolivia since it has better established socialist democracy in South America.

Everything they've told you is wrong.

>>18

Actually Xenu start coup to become the intergalatic emporer, but he was assasinated by his twin sister Xena, and then start the war

Gog and Magog is the empire who will rise from the ashes of Babylon and enslave the world according to Revelations.  It just happens to be the Middle East.

>>23
Babylon was an empire based around the major rivers Euphrates and Tigres in modern day Iraq. Maybe Al Qaeda and the Ba'ath party will rise from the ashes?

Iran allies with Iraq and Afghanistan by driving out US forces in massive civil upheaval, then aims nukes at the US and Israel.  Israel attacks with its leet Krav Maga foot soldiers but is no match for 100,000 children armed with Korans who run head first into the enemy.  The US can do nothing but watch, until the Antipope takes the Catholic church and decrees that all humanity must have a computer chip implanted under the wrist.  Then, one thousand years of war, famine, pestilence, and all around death.    BTW, Paris Hilton is the confirmed Whore of Babylon.