spirituality .vs. Religion

I think people oft attack spirituality, confusing it with religion, which is the institutionalization of spirituality. Spirituality is fine. When spiritualism is put into religion dogma (Science, Christianity, or Atheism)it becomes a socio-political issue that starts rifts. What do you guys think?

spirituality is bullshit too. learn to live without some guy looking at you from heaven and taking care of you.

Spirituality is a positive comfort system for a lot of people, which they can define to their needs.  It usually won't cause them to do stupid things, like take up arms against the infidels.  I'm all for it, because honestly, most people (myself included) just can't live with the thought that substance is all there is.

I worship Jessica Alba and want to live in her snatch.

>>4
Whatever works dooder.

>>2
doesn't know what spirituality is

Historically, the split in Western society (which is what we're really talking about here, right?) between so-called "spirituality" and "religion" was made during the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic church heirarchy was blatantly corrupt, so the Protestants set up their own thing, saying they were spiritual while accusing the Catholics of being "just" religious.

Anyway, several hundred years down the line, we have the European Enlightenment, where values such as secular humanism replace overt faith, including the diverse Protestantisms.

But it turns out secular humanism is no different. Spirituality gets replaced with "Reason," "Humanism" etc. But if you get right down to the structure of the belief -- whether you are a modern day Western secular humanist (aka an atheist) or a old-school Catholic -- your belief in overarching values, and your belief that society (everyone) should base their lives on these particular sets of values are essentially hegemonic in their nature.

A modern example of this is so-called "Americanism" -- meaning hardwork, individualism, freedom, Mom, Apple Pie and, unfortunately, also incinerating non-white-skinned people in their own countries with WMDs (in the name of this myth, of course).

P.S. >>2 is right.

>>7

I'd agree with you in most cases, but i've experienced a few exceptions in my life.

The most important being my Mom. From childhood to adulthood she was nothing short then a caring parent. I lived with her without knowing religion, spirtuality, or secular beliefs. She brought me and my two sisters up in an enviroment that just didn't include anything of that nature.

Only till I was much older did I find out my mom was just about the most spiritually/religious person i've ever met. She NEVER ever talked about it to us, it was almost like she didn't want to. Whatever her reason, we found out the barn she built for yard work was stocked with every book from Jewish Mystism to Roman/Greek Myth. We were kinda shocked that she could hide something like this, and it wasn't because we were ignorant, she simple lived a life were her beliefs were absent of regular/our lives.

Even today when our family has philosphical and religious conversations she never includes herself. She'll never mention anything remotely religous unless you ask her, in which she'll give you a horrible look, and after alot of begging, give you just about every human view on the matter you can bear to hear.
She told us her views on everything, all of them being different from what she taught us.

My mom sincerly brought us up so that we could choose, discover, and learn what we found to be true. She believes whatever she choose and NEVER forces it on anyone. I can't even truthfully say she believes in god(s), but she observed and respected just about anything relating to it. I can safely say she was a spiritual person, and maybe thats not the right word for her.

>>1
If you are saying that religion is political in nature, I think that is self evident.

>>9
Yes, but I'm saying spirituality is not.

Spirituality is bullshit. Go go physicalism and determinism!

Who starts these threads anyway? I kind of get the feeling that some of them are started by this site's webmaster to encourage discussion and use of the web site. Not that there's anything actually wrong with that. Just a bit weird.

>>12
I think they'd be placed in the proper forums is such was the case..

>>12
 I'm no site master :o

I used to start all of them until I got banned.

>>15
that anonymous guy is responsible for a lot of things ;>

Well, through studying and reading and observation, I've come to find that evolution is a solid fact. I know the mathematics involved. However...

What I fail to gather from it all is where the ability of a mass of organic 'stuff', however complex, to be able to recognize it's own existence comes from, and everything about our personalities that separate us from other animals, such as motivation and ambition.

>>17
The Jews. Duh.

>>18
Um... What? e_e'

It's true that spirituality is better than religion because there are no spiritual fundamentalists, but still, spirituality is still as silly as religion.  Sure, it doesn't hurt anyone, but you're still believing silly things that have no basis in reality.

>>19
zomg ITS A CONSPIRACY

>>20
Yeah, I know a few spiritualists and they never have to live up to any rhetoric or fastiing like most religions do. Spirituality is belief in some sort of higher being that isn't nature.

nature is EVERYTHING by definition

>>23
yes, but religious freaks say god is exempt from nature, as with the majority of spiritualists. illogical, but people think so :/

and other religious freaks say god IS nature

I personally believe they're two different things. Religion is the way different cultures worships or adknowledge the existence of god.
Religions are not bad by nature. They become "bad" when bad people driven by fanatism and/or hate use it to harm others.

>>26
I'm with you, as long as man is in any equation there will be both the good form of it and the bad, spirituality and religion will be seen both ways good and bad but the fact of the matter is they both are at there best when they are used correctly and together.

I think spirituality is a made up term that, like religions, comforts us, protects us from the fear of death, aging, loss...

I love Collin Farrel and want to live on his penis.

Meh...It even says in the Bible to fear organized religion and that book is freaking old.  It's not like this is some new topic here.

Spiritualty and religion are for losers who are afraid of their very life, have minds too small and pitiful to understand greatness in an on itself, and are cowards who can't face the fact there may be questions without answers. Truly pathetic, and an insult to intelligence.

>>30
This thread is now over, kill yourselves or admit defeat.

>>8


Don't want to sound lame, but your Mom sounds really cool.

>>30
Atheists, by comparison, are enlightened creatures who have realized everything exists to serve them, and life is all about the pursuit of pleasure. Truly noble, and a model for all humanity.

This was sarcasm, in case you couldn't detect it.

>>30
While people who don't like spirituality and religion are too afraid afraid of there existing a long term consequence of their actions and in a small minded and pitiful attitude curl up into a little ball and tell themselves over and over that there is no <divine being's name>.  Once that fails they run around shouting to everyone else that there is no such thing as <divine being's name> under the guise of trying to convince others when really they are trying to convince themselves of this, but fall under the classic scheme of democracy where if the majority believe it, it must be true.  Then these people run about and engage in all sorts of amoral actions because in the end, that is what they want, a life of vice and never any consequences.

>>33

it is a shame that you meant it sarcastically, as the full truth and matter-of-factness of the dream will never completely hit you now.  The smart atheists anyway.

>>33
life is all about the pursuit of pleasure
Give me a GOOD reason why this is false. You puritans are not one bit better for refusing pleasure, in fact all that makes you is sadder and petty.

>>34
in a small minded and pitiful attitude curl up into a little ball and tell themselves over and over that there is no <divine being's name>
Actually, atheists say nothing. It's believers who invented the whole thing and started talking about gods, which one day were new words.

trying to convince others when really they are trying to convince themselves of this
Actually, atheists aren't convinced about anything, and that's why they cannot accept the religious business (in the most capitalist sense of the word, BTW; not that it's bad BTW, I would create a religion myself if I could so I get rich). It's Western dogmatic religions what keep trying to spread and killing people for it. Study moar History.

fall under the classic scheme of democracy where if the majority believe it, it must be true
If the majority of people believes or does something, then I must at least question it. Scum aren't famous for their wisdom and well doing.

Then these people run about and engage in all sorts of amoral actions because in the end, that is what they want, a life of vice and never any consequences.
Lol puritan, I bet you don't touch your pee-pee because it's sinful. Well, don't worry, I'll touch my harbl twice just to compensate your lack of healthy masturbation.

>>36

Last I checked vice has nothing to do with being afraid to touch your peepee.  Vice is things like, stealing, murder, etc.  Also, 34 is right, the atheists tend to be the violent ones that preach the loudest of thier own religion.  Yeah, that's right, atheism is a religion.  It may be a belief in nothing, but it is still a belief.

>>37
Last I checked vice has nothing to do with being afraid to touch your peepee.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vice#V0085800

Yeah, that's right, atheism is a religion.
Saying atheism is a religion it's like saying health is a disease.

It may be a belief in nothing, but it is still a belief.
It's not a belief, it's a lack thereof. Perhaps little minds can't understand this because they need all these spiritual structures in order to not shudder with fear and doubt.

atheists say nothing.

Atheists say there is no god. Hence, [B]a[/I]theist: no religion.

Perhaps you're thinking of agnostic: no knowledge?

>>39
A grey area divides atheism and agnosticism, so I rarely make a difference. It's more like:
Agnostic: I don't know, I need proof before accepting anything
Atheist: I wouldn't know, but that's most certainly bullshit [points to bible, koran, etc.], and I need proof before accepting anything, so until you have any, or a reasonable theory, there's no god

Most Americans Say Religion Is Losing Influence in U.S : http://www.gallup.com/poll/162803/americans-say-religion-losing-influence.aspx

Spiritualism is in the realm of philosophy, theories and open mindedness, with allotment to change, malleable and tactical; Spiritualism is broad, and vague- encapsulating many different people.

Whilst Religion, is a much more demanding, strict and tyrannical institution. It is blind to reasoning, closed to any disproving logic, easily angered, and inwardly punishing. They believe in a more hierarchical approach, when it comes to the way we are "supposed to" live, and overall follow each other around in circles indefinitely with occasional change, and constant contempt for those who are not in the politically correct little circles they so "righteously" fit in too.

Since this thread is on 4chan what example not more fit then the rift between Anonymous and Scientology!
Scientology of course resembling the strict and illogical blundering of religion,
And Anonymous being the voice of reason, fairness, equality, and above all else, Truth.

spirituality makes my anus tingle

spirituality makes my sphincter tingle

spirituality makes my rectum tingle

spirituality makes my testicles tingle

spirituality makes my scrotum tingle

ooh hoo hoo oooh OOH

>>42
humans are social animals and religion takes advantage of that, it is no tyranny if it is what people want

>>43
Okay my vocabulary was not fit. It is not necessarily what people want. I find it absurd that just because humans are social creatures they wish to conform or consent to the restrictive lifestyle of religions. It is none the less, in my opinion, a morally debauched system of worship.

>>44
Well, I treat repressive religion in the same way I treat any other physical feature of the universe. I find quantum coupling absurd but that doesn't invalidate the experimental evidence. Malaria causes a lot of suffering but no one calls it morally debauched. It is the same with repressive religion, it is not something you can fight by putting on a fedora and engaging in constant futile internet debates and circle jerking on /r/atheism (not saying you are like this, just seen a lot of people like this).

You need to look into the psychological basis of repressive religions and try to suppress that psychological basis.