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Noam Chomsky has all the answers

Name: Anonymous 2005-08-11 18:12

Discuss.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 3:12

>>36
I think that's a bad idea.

People are by and large stupid, and they'll use their own little piece of power to make things difficult for others.  (can you imagine if the christian reich was able to weild absolute power proportional to their population?)

We need a government to hold a big portion of the power, but not one that can get anything done or use thier power effectively; rather, we need one that can't get anything done 95% of the time, and when they are getting something done, they should usually be counteracting what they had just "acheived".  This keeps them out of your business for the most part, and keeps the most catastrophic failures from happening.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 3:17

>>41
It also keeps the government from doing anything productive. If you think government is some sort of scheme to oppress racial minorities/the poor/insert group here, I suppose that's good, but some of us want government to do things like defend the country.

>>36
Can you answer 34's question?

>>40
Am I the only one who sees the irony in anarchists organizing themselves?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 8:39

>>42

Yes, because everyone else here knows that the idea of anarchy being "choas" is a myth. The word simply means: "Without rule" - but the ruling class beat it into your head from birth that without their rule- there will be choas. That's simply remains to be seen.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 13:06

>>43
And again, can you or anyone else advocating anarchy answer 34's question? Without a government to protect the fundamental rights of its citizens, what protects people from someone who wishes to gain power?

Also, it's spelled "chaos."

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 14:16

>>44

I know how it's spelled. Note the quotes. 34's question is merely hypothetical and a casual concern. There are people who stand unprotected now by those who wish to gain power. Case in point: The Fundamentalist movements in the U.S and other countries.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 15:33

>>40
Ok, so how do they organize themselves? What if the organization contains 100000 people? Not everyone can talk to everyone else in the organization and gain their trust. What system of organization do you use?

Does this organization vote in their leaders? You've said this organization doesn't use armed thugs to keep control, so what measures are taken to ensure armed thugs don't take control? Do all these people pay a tax to fund a police force which allows people all across the organization to join up who all swear oaths to serve and protect?

What about the children of the members of this organization? What if the members or people they care about get sick and they need someone to get them to hospital quickly if they can't pay for a professional doctor's services immediately? How will this issue be coverred? What about education and regulations which ensure professional doctor's are not quacks and other fraud? What about the laws and the lawyers, judges and jurys to make sure all these laws are carried out to the best reasonable judgement possible?

How will they all be paid for and regulated by the members of this organization? What civil servants will be there to make sure everything runs smoothly and who decides they should be in power?

Answer all these questions please.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 16:32

>>46

Why? I mean, how do we get all these things *now*? And are they flawless? No. The coming anarchy will be an improvement on our current system, rest assured.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 19:46

rest assured.

Please don't make stupid shit up. Until it has been actually tried, we don't know what it'll actually be like.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 20:30

>>47
Stabbing yourself in the face will do good for the world, rest assured.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-12 20:34

>>47
Seriously though, I need proof before I follow something. All those evil conservatives who make it out that you are a bunch of morons at least have some proof that their ideas work, the people who follow them are not completely blind even if they are narrow minded. You don't have to actually have a working anarchy to prove it, you just need a rational argument which suggests things would be better.

So, come on. Answer the questions. Why is anarchy better than current sustems? Can you think of ways that anarchy can be used in small scale in sectors of the economy and government where large groups of people who have never met each other have to trust each other and work together?

Then I will rest assured.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 1:23

>>50
Workers' movements in Argentina. The workers are taking over and running their own businesses. Mostly factories, but also schools, medical clinics, etc.

During the Spanish Civil War, the Anarchists were running lots of things, such as the transit system in Barcelona (which ran with more efficiency and at a greater profit than before the revolution).

Here's one example of an anarchist system that I'm somewhat familiar with. I can't answer all your questions since I'm neither an expert nor an organizer. But there's lots of info on the site.

http://www.parecon.org/

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 2:14

>>50

Listen, no one hear is claiming to have all the answers. Not Chomsky, not anyone. If you haven't bothered to do the research on what an actual anarchy is, then what makes you think you can be shown anything here- on the internet- that will make you change your mind? The fact that you already don't have the answers you seek, means that you will always have questions (some relevant, some not) and therefore always doubt the idea.

It would be a waste of time explaining this stuff to you.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 3:58

It would be a waste of time explaining this stuff to you.

Unrelated to this discussion, but this is a prime example of argument suicide. Don't do it.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 6:12

>>40
That's great, and everything, but what happens when an idiot with brand spankin new ideas that will change the world comes in and makes a mess of everything?  As far as I know, anarchy has no system to control for that.  You're completely at the mercy of the uneducated, or in this case overeducated masses.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 9:24

>>42
Who the fuck cares about defense nowadays? I want my roads to be less shoddy, my lawyers to be broke-ass poor because they pursue cases for a sense of justice and not machiavellian greed, and my vegans deep fried on ol' sparky, among other annoyances which are in desperate need of correcting.
For anachists: Corporations never need correcting. If the society birthing them is sick, then they shall remain incurable. FUCK THIS ASININE POS COUNTRY, AND THE DEAD MULE IT LIMPED IN ON. IF I CAN'T SEE WHAT MY TAXES ARE DOING IT PROBABLY ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE I WANT IT TO GO! Fucking bureaucratic nonsense.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 13:38

>>53

If you just want an argument, then I advise you get a girlfriend. They love to bicker.

But If you want to understand, then I advise you look this shit up yourself and learn. Your questions come off as silly, as it's obvious that the answer is in the willingless to *know* the answer.

If you had the willingness you wouldn't have the question- but instead the cricitism to the answer itself.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 20:28

>>56
I'm >>53. That's also my first post to this thread in several days. No, I'm not the other guy.

I'm simply pointing out an observation I've made from reading several mailing lists and forums. As you get older you begin to recognize the signs of a weak argument, because you've seen them many times before. The last line of >>52 was argument suicide; you should have resisted the urge for such an obvious juvenile jab. It's held that ad hominem attacks are a bad idea, and for good reason.

By the way, you realize that this is a situation you could educate your opponent? Discourse is a more effective way to educate people than a book. Instead of saying "go look it up on teh intarweb!" (also argument suicide), you should explain why they're wrong (great, you know your stuff!), or provide respectable links (so/so).

By the way, if you provide links, make sure you actually read the links first, not just skim. You'd be amazed how many people cut their own throats by dropping links (or footnotes, haha!) which they didn't read or don't understand.

Name: Noam Chomsky 2006-01-13 21:11

c = x^(1/x) = x^(x^-1)

I cannot find c in terms of x. I do not know the answer.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 21:25

>>57

Who you are certainly doesn't change what I said.

"Argument Suicide"? That's fine because I don't want to argue. "Resisted the urge for a juvenile jab"? Ok, Captain Moderator...How about this for "juvenile": You fuck off.  

As for the rest of your pathetic egotistic diatribe you can refer right back to >>56.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 21:37

That's fine because I don't want to argue.

Then why did you post here in the first place? To stroke your ego in a shower of undulation? What exactly were you expecting?

If you don't want to take my advice, don't. I quite like how you've fallen back to attacking the messenger rather than the message.

As for the rest of your pathetic egotistic diatribe you can refer right back to >>56.

Would it help if I point out that I've read at least half of Chomsky's writings? The entire Anarchist FAQ? And that I used to be an Anarchist myself? I'm not arguing about your points, just your style. Slinging personal attacks is a pretty sure indicator you don't understand the topic you're arguing (or simply lack support).

So are you going to answer his bitching, or are you just going to attack me again to cover your apparent impotence?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 22:13

>>60

When someone is obviously and so blantly ignorant about a *particular* subject, I think they're impossible to reach and debate is futile. They shouldn't even approach the subject in the first place.

U know how an good argument is supposed to go, in this case however, I just don't give a fuck. It's not worth it sitting here arguing with a bunch of kids about *this particular subject*, understand yet? When it comes to anarchy there are two categories: People who read the right stuff out of a lust for knowledge and know what the fuck they're talking about...then there's those who *THINK* they've read the right stuff out of a lust for knowledge and THINK they know what the fuck they're talking about.

You can think what you want about my understanding of Anarchy, I really don't care. Saying someone "doesn't understand" or declaring their "impotence" to be "apparent" is an ad hominem attacks

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 22:14

a vieled ad hominem attack, itself*

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 22:27

Except in this case I think it's a valid criticism. "It would be a waste of time explaining this stuff to you" reeks of it, even if >>50 is a fool.

To be blunt: if it's a waste of time, you shouldn't have posted >>52 at all. So why did you?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 22:31

>>63
I don't care if you think it's valid. That's all subjective. Why did *you* post in this thread Captain Moderator? Say, you wouldn't happen to be a female would you?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-13 23:09

lol internet

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-15 5:16

>>61
I'M RIGHT! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU'RE STUPID!

Going to attract a lot of followers that way, yesiree.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-15 9:54

>>66

If that's the way you've twisted that comment in your widdle head,  then by all means- stay away stupid(s).

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-15 20:06

That's pretty much what it amounts to. Kids go around screaming shit like that. Adults just don't bother replying.

You're anonymous. What's the point? Got a head so big you can't stand to let it go?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-15 20:39

>>68

In part, yes. Another part of me wants them to know that someone thinks they are stupid and need to grow the fuck up.

Hey and check it out! It's the Internet!

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-15 21:00

>>69
I think you're stupid and need to grow the fuck up.

And yes, it's the Internet.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-15 22:05

>>70

Yeah? Well I think you'---WHERE IS SARA CONNOR?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-17 0:36

What a fucktard, they were fighting to protect south Vietnam from communism and allow it to develop like South Korea and Japan.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-22 5:04

CHOMSKY: I was attracted to anarchism as a young teenager, as soon as I began to think about the world beyond a pretty narrow range, and haven't seen much reason to revise those early attitudes since. I think it only makes sense to seek out and identify structures of authority, hierarchy, and domination in every aspect of life, and to challenge them; unless a justification for them can be given, they are illegitimate, and should be dismantled, to increase the scope of human freedom. That includes political power, ownership and management, relations among men and women, parents and children, our control over the fate of future generations (the basic moral imperative behind the environmental movement, in my view), and much else. Naturally this means a challenge to the huge institutions of coercion and control: the state, the unaccountable private tyrannies that control most of the domestic and international economy, and so on. But not only these. That is what I have always understood to be the essence of anarchism: the conviction that the burden of proof has to be placed on authority, and that it should be dismantled if that burden cannot be met. Sometimes the burden can be met. If I'm taking a walk with my grandchildren and they dart out into a busy street, I will use not only authority but also physical coercion to stop them. The act should be challenged, but I think it can readily meet the challenge. And there are other cases; life is a complex affair, we understand very little about humans and society, and grand pronouncements are generally more a source of harm than of benefit. But the perspective is a valid one, I think, and can lead us quite a long way.

Beyond such generalities, we begin to look at cases, which is where the questions of human interest and concern arise.

http://struggle.ws/rbr/noamrbr2.html

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-22 11:26

>>73
His objectives are logical, but the way he goes about achieving them are fucking stupid. Besides most of these objectives have already been achieved and there is no need to dismantle democracy.

I still haven't seen a rational argument to support anarchy, my guess is it is just another tyranny cloaked in idealism, like socialism. Noam is pretty rich for someone who doesn't like free market businesses.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-24 12:54

>>74
But socialism works...  It works perfectly.  Look at finland.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-24 15:36

>>75
So why doesn't Cuba and North Korea work?

Also Finland isn't 100% socialist, it's income tax is 50% (which is high for a democracy but makes it more of a welfare state) and it doesn't execute people for disagreeing with the government (which is a must in a socialist government seeing as socialism consists of putting a ruling party in power which takes everyone's money and eventually people will get tired of this and resist unless opressed like in Cuba and North Korea). Not to mention the fact that Finland is 100% white and mono-cultural so any system of government there will work anyway.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-24 15:46

>>76
National socialism?

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-24 22:38

>>76

semantics

Name: I have all the answers. 2006-01-24 22:39

NOam Chomsky is wrong.

Name: Anonymous 2006-01-25 13:39

>>78
What is so semantic about straight scientific facts? You must be attempting to deny reality! Why is this? Are you stupid or evil?

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