I think this is a fair judgement. English is the de facto language of the US, and should stay that way. If players in a game are to be given an equal chance at winning, allowing "private" communication not available to other players gives them an unfair advantage. Some of the players can't speak english? Too bad. It's not like little Jimmy in a wheelchair -- as much as we feel for his plight -- gets to drive a motor scooter around the diamond if he ever gets a hit. Sorry, if you don't meet the requirements, you don't get to play. It's not like I complain about it being unfair that I can't play StarCraft since I DON'T OWN THE GAME.
I'm happy to let any immigrant into the US who can demonstrate useful skills, even if it means supporting them more than the redneck hicks in West Virginia with half their teeth missing. If they clamor, "But we is Amerucuns!" then they can do the American thing and get a job. (Of course, the same goes for any immigrants. Get a job instead of living off welfare.) I'll also welcome all the cultural diversity other people will bring to the US. I couldn't live her without Chinese take out or Taco Bell.
But, it's one thing to add cultural diversity. It's another alltogether to expect a cultural adaptation. The language here is English. Learn it. At the most basic level, I think that anybody who isn't willing to put forth the effort to learn their host's language doesn't deserve the host's support. For example, in California, money is spent on teaching Spanish-speaking kids Spanish. Sure, it may be important for them to learn their native tongue better, but how about doing that AFTER we teach them English! Kids are failing math and english because of a lack of funding, and here these geniuses decide to waste money on teaching them Spanish?
So back to the point, English. Learn it, you bratty Little Leaguers. Or don't. Stay in your house, buy your groceries form the Latino market (good food, I've gotta say; wish I spoke Spanish), and wonder for the rest of your life who Dick and Jane are and what a "ball" is. Can't read your utility bills? Too bad. Can't read the newspapers and know what's going on in the world? Too bad. Can't get a driver's licence because you can understand the written part of the test? Too bad. Learning another language as an adult is by no means easy, but it's not impossible. Learn a bit every day, and within a relatively short amount of time, you'll at least be able to understand basic concepts.
No sympathy for those kids. If they feel the obligation to learn English is a big hurdle, they should be happy to have it so good. If they can't eat a meal a day, sleep in their own bed, or have a roof above them, I can understand why learning English might not be a priority. But the bottom line is if you don't put forth the effort to learn to speak, you don't deserve the oppertunities it provides.
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Anonymous-EZLN2005-07-30 2:27 (sage)
Why don't you learn Spanish insted of protesting the use of English in America? America is a melting pot if you have forgotten. Your ignorence of other cultures and languages just shows how little intellegence you have. Most of the people who build up this country were of Spanish descent. Mexico/Spain actually owned a larger part of America then the French and English. Who the hell do you think keeps all your public lawns looking good? Who the hell do you think get's you most of your fresh fruits and vegetables when america's crops are decreasing because there is no money to be made in farming in this country? So while you protest that everyone should speak english in america you should think of Americas history insted of your white bread version of it. Your racist view is just what makes this country worse and worse. You have no clue what it's like where they came from and you don't care because you are just a ignorate son of a bitch.
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STFU NAZI2005-07-30 2:30 (sage)
Also who the fuck are you to say who is meaingful in our country and who is not. STFU AND GTFO!
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Anonymous2005-08-01 9:17
What does it mean for America to be a "melting-pot?" Even though this idea has many flaws, it's still far to think of the US as a patchwork of different cultures and peoples. Unfortunately, the common theme in Americas history is that each wave of immigrants suffered discrimination (Irish, Italians, Catholics, Poles, Germans), only to become the discriminators themselves after a generation or two, once they themselves had become prosporus. Is that the same thing happening today? Maybe. The world over, "immigrants" are the easy scapegoat for political and economic blame. But that's actually a whole different issue. This is about accepting standards and integration into society, not racism.
Ethnocentricity? Maybe. Sure, the ethnocentrist would say, "my culture is superiour, therefore my language is superior. Hence, everybody should learn my language!" (Which is at best just laziness.) The first part of this issue is really about standards, though. This country was built by all kinds of different people (mostly NOT of latino descent), in particular many Chinese. English has been the de facto standard here, and all the various different groups of immigrants learned English in order to communicate with non-Chinese. It's hardly made them give up their Chinese language, culture or heritage. Just look at any city, and you'll find Chinese markets, restaurants, and so forth. Same goes for any other ethnic group -- Jews, Italians, Carribians, Korean, and on and on. Adopting the host language is hardly any kind of ethnocentric demand, and not even remotely racist or bigoted or ignorant. It's a matter of practicality.
(I'll jump right to the point here. When I moved to Germany, did I expect people to speak English for my convenience? No, I knew it was up to me to learn German. But back to the point...) Just because there is no official language of the United States doesn't mean anything goes. Standards do need to be set, and those happen to be in English. Why change them? Maybe there are good reasons, but that's then a legislative issue, not a social one anymore. The whole issue in that article is not about trying to be racist or homophobic, it's about enacting standards. Standards are (for better or worse) an essential part of life, and we all have to live with them. (Think I like the speed limit standards? No, but I have to conform to them anyways, even if I am more than capable of driving safe above those speeds.)
Now on to the second part: integration. Immigrants in the past have wanted one thing in particular after economic viability. Integration into society. They did not want to be segregated or marginalized. They wanted to be part of America. Give up their culture or heritage? No, that's a private issue they're welcome to keep. But they've done their best to work together with the rest of society to become part of it. But how is that working out today?
Integration means finding commonalities between groups instead of focusing on differences. By expecting special treatment, separate groups are further marginalizing themselves, not integrating. The sociological aspects of ethnic differentiation are far too complex to be nailed down to only one or two aspects, but it is clear that any group intentionally segregating itself will not be as readily accepted into a society. Do they have themselves to blame for bigotry? No, of course not, but any reasonable person will avoid doing things to provoke it.
Here's the point in example form. If the little leagers come up and say, "Well, we speak Spanish, so you have to let us," the appropriate response would be, "There is no 'us' and 'them,' it's 'we,' as in each one of us together. You're welcome to join the group, but as part of the group, you don't get any special treatment." Voluntary segregation is what causes problems.
Who picks the fruit and mows the lawns? Yup, the segrigated, marginalized segments of society that can't get better work. But they're not the ones providing the services. It's somebody who has learned to speak English, who has integrated into society but still (surprise surprise) still has his old, worthy culture and heritage. It's the people who can exploit the marginalized who provide the services. Those in the weak economic position would be wise to integrate themselves instead of just laying prone to exploitation. As members of (what we consider) a civilized nation, they deserve better.
Should society help them? Absolutely. Should, say, translaters be available at the Public Defenders Office in order to provide adequate legal counsil to non-English speaking defendants? Absolutely. Should school systems allow non-English speaking students leeway in learning the language while they adjust. Most certainly.
The goal should be to help them integrate into society. Pluralism is a wonderful thing, but it's not a free ticket to do as one pleases. Pluralism means having distinct features within one entity, not trying to force distinct entities to harmoneously interact. It's up to a society to help it's memebers become integrated, but the "foreigners" are expected to put forth their own effort, too.
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Anonymous2005-08-01 19:41
look, heres how it should go, if youre around people who are more comfortable speaking spanish, and everyone can speak and understand it, then its fine, but if you are going to impose it on others, thats fucking rediculous, the united states of america is an english speaking country, and it is highly encouraged that all people learn its language, you can still hold onto your own language, but, it is not, however our job to accomodate those who refuse to peak our national language.
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Anonymous2005-08-01 19:43 (sage)
Other countries have official languages which probably got that way through means just as unjust. But, they don't have to worry about this shit. Soon enough, English will be our official language. This debate is absolutely unnecessary; the ruling is appropriate. The end.
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Anonymous2005-08-03 9:01
>>2
Hey, I'd love to learn spanish. Unfortunately, there's just not enough time it a day. But that's beside the point. The issue here isn't which language is used, it's about volutary segregation, which is a downright dumb idea.
By your logic, since there's such a big Turkish population in Germany, I should have to learn Turkish as well as German to live here. Also, since Poland was once a part of Germany, I should speak Polish too. Well, fuck that. I live in Germany, I learned German. Any Turkish dude who never made the effort to learn and can't communicate with me is SOL.
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Anonymous2005-08-04 16:27 (sage)
>If players in a game are to be given an equal chance at winning, allowing "private" communication not available to other players gives them an unfair advantage.
What kinda xenophobic bullshit is this? Hand gestures between the catcher and pitcher are private communications as well. Should those be disallowed because it's secret?!? You just don't like someone saying stuff you don't get. You are scared.
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Anonymous2005-08-04 17:42
Yo Quiero Taco Bell.
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Anonymous2005-08-04 17:43
>>7
As opposed to involuntary segregation? That's okay then, I guess?
i'm only scared of being stabbed, and lower property value
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Anonymous2005-08-05 10:51
>>13
That's a legitamate fear, but the same thing can happen when white trash move into the neighborhood. Has nothing to do with languages. Any other excuses?
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Anonymous2005-08-05 13:31
>>9
That's actually a good point. However, there is a difference. Any specialized hand gestures are things that need to be worked on ahead of time. If they want to spend the time doing that, anybody can. Hand signals are also hardly as emotive as spoken commands.
But that's beside the point. Xenophobic? Not at all; this is America, any anybody is welcome regardless of any silly skin-deep atributes, and any orientation, too. Equal but separate just does not work. There has to be one standard, and it's English, fair or not. "Voluntary segrigation" is making the (rightful) claim to equality, but then making all kinds of exceptions, in this case for language. You can't claim equality and then turn around and demand special treatment.
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Anonymous2005-08-06 10:07
>>15
Anyone can spend time to learn a language as well. What does emotion have to do with it? Using a different language that everyone else uses in the game is an advantage. The non-Spanish team could just as well work out code names for plays or whatever. The thing is you don't keep someone from playing if they have the advantage of better eyesight, faster legs, or strong arms.
Just to make it clear, Xenophobia has nothing to do with your skin or orientation, and I never made a suggestion that it did. Xenophobia is fear and contempt of strangers or foreign peoples.
What's wrong with voluntary segregation? It may lead to inability to learn English, but it maintains a certain cultural diversity that America is supposed to embrace. In this case, unless I read wrong, the "Spanish" players know English. They are playing the game not only with "their own people." But now they are being segregated and it's involuntary.
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Anonymous2005-08-10 18:07
spanish is a crappy language
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Anonymous2005-08-11 0:52
>>16
The posting in >>15 did not say a thing about emotions. they said emotive. It means to convey a message in this case. They are saying that hand siganls hardly carry the same message in baseball as a spoken, verbal command would.
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Anonymous2009-01-06 23:17
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Anonymous2009-01-08 0:07
>>16
Not to liberals, Xenophobia means that you are an inbred, illiterate, redneck. Anything that they disagree with they find a word, append 'phobia', or 'phobic' to the end of it. And then screech it at the top of their Starbucks encrusted lungs while leaving tear streaks through the smegma embedded on their faces.
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Anonymous2009-01-08 18:04
>>1
PUTOS GRINGOS RACISTAS NADA MAS CAGANDO LA VERGA CON LEYES ESTUPIDAS, OJALA ALGUN DIA EL GOBIERNO DE NUESTROS PAISES SE PONGA LAS PILAS Y LES APLIQUE LEYES TAN ABSURDAS COMO ESTAS PARA QUE SIENTAN EN CARNE PROPIA ESTE TIPO DE ESTUPIDECES