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Centralism

Name: Anonymous 2005-02-13 8:27

What do you think about centralism as opposed to decentralized, federal models of state? Do you think centralism is more efficient? Will decentralized governments work better? Is decentralization fair to all citizens of a country who are meant to be equal?

First, some definitions on this matter:

Centralized state: More uniform and more depending on the central goverment. Provinces/departments have regional power for everything that concerns a region, but jurisdiction on matters like education, health, etc. is held by the central government and global to all provinces. Larger central government and smaller regional governments.

Decentralized state: Typically federal states; more autonomous regional government and less powerful central government; states, autonomous communities, or provinces regulate their own education, health, local security, etc. within a base of regulations of the central government. Smaller central government and larger regional governments.


Now, my take on centralism:

Centralism is, to put it simply, the fairest and most efficient government system, and History has proven it in the golden eras of the most successful empires ever Roman, English and Spanish.

IMO, modern, decentralized, sometimes federal systems of government are a bastardization of the concept of state, and promotes division, substraction, and competition between fellow provinces, instead of union, addition, and fellowship.

Citizens in a state are supposed to be equal. If so, why governing them differently? Why do they have to pay different taxes, have different laws, and even different welfare systems? Decentralization is simply illogical. In a decentralized health system, a health product that seems to be good in a province may be deemed negative and banned in its neighbor. How can you explain to citizens that something is bad for health, if they walk 10 steps crossing a boundary and it's recommended by local doctors?

And let's talk about efficiency. Decentralization may look so good to libertarian leftists, but their opinion would change if they realized their tax money is spent by their province to reinvent the adminsitration, systems, software, etc. other provinces had come up with. And when the government needs to acquire, say, urban furniture, instead of making a huge order and getting the cheapest prices to pay with the hard-earned money of its citizens, decentralized states make much smaller orders, wasting public money. Companies may have to reengineer their work, and selection processes are repeated over and over for every province.

In decentralized states, provinces also tend to get more or less money and/or attention from the central government depending on if the party in goverment in the province matches the one controlling the central government, and they tend to collaborate less with provinces governed by different parties. Why must citizens be subject to political drama like this, and why must efforts be divided and countered between parts of a single body? It's as silly as if you had your right hand arm-wrestling your left.

Decentralization promotes division between fellow citizens, and tribal feelings. Instead of thinking your country vs. others, low-IQed individuals think their province or region against others, wasting national strength while other countries are busy taking advantage of their loss.

For all these reasons, union being the most important one as it's the basic and key concept of state, and some others, I dislike decentralized models of government. Centralism is the only model that truly unites everyone and gives the most out of people's money and efforts. Only matters that are local to a particular region should be relied upon regional administrations.

The downside of centralism could be size. But the central government doesn't have to be that big and that hard to control as some think. A well structured hierarchy within the government will always be able to handle this. Heck, the Roman Emperor managed to be in control of a huge empire without electricity or engines. It'd be a shame if such a thing wouldn't be possible today. Finally, governments don't have to be huge and control everything in capitalist, liberal states. It's better to keep businesses going by staying out of them. That's, after all, what makes the population rich. And it's against reason to fund needless unprofitable organizations and bloat the state with people's money. Only basic welfare (like health and of course education) would be good to offer, and they should work like a separate, profitable company anyways, with global policies which help reducing costs and keeping them under control.

As for federations, unless they are born from a true union of different sovereign states that do not want to lose their sovereignty, they are an aberration and a disgrace for a nation.

Name: Anonymous 2005-02-13 10:54

I wouldn't say one is "better."  Both have strengths and weaknesses, and both should exist.

Name: Krunzi 2005-02-13 19:11

yes... pretty much the reason why most states today are centralised, and those who are not are moving towards centralisation, is because it works better than a decentralised state.
Decentralisation had it's reign a long time ago, we live in a world that continue to grow smaller for each day that pass. With globalisation and world busiiness, deentralised states, small communities, can't compete by themselves.
Wether decentralisation or centralisation is the optimal for a state where the individuas are supposed to be equal? I'd say it makes no real difference. you can have a centralised state where there is a large difference in the equality of individuals, and the same with a decentralsied tstate. that's a matter of which pfilsoophy the state was built upon, which philosophy is the background for the culture. So i don't really think you can say there is anything that is better over the other there.

Name: Anonymous 2005-02-18 7:59 (sage)

All governing systems are horrible flawed, Nuf sed

Name: Anonymous 2005-08-18 5:32

Centralism wins!

Name: Grawp 2008-04-13 16:30

RON PAUL /newpol/,

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Name: Anonymous 2008-04-13 22:12

Centralism is communism, niggers.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-13 22:44

Disconnected bureaucrats in the Hague should make ALL the decisions that affect you in your home and business in Boise, Idaho.  Obviously that's the best option ... if you were a fucking RETARD, that is.

Liberty is by nature a decentralized affair.  By advocating centralization of all government, you're just arguing against liberty.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-13 22:47

The bigger the bureaucracy the bigger the fail. 

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-14 4:47

if you want to live in a weak nation of fail to be swallowed over, decentralization is fine.

Or, you could be Switzerland, then it works...

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-14 8:23

Things which work best when centralized should be centralized. Things which work best when decentralized should be decentralized.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-14 9:19

>>1
wow, so much fail and the more you wrote the worse it got
even people who write something like "lol NIGGERS" have a MUCH deeper insight in politics than you

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-14 15:48

lol NIGGERS.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-14 15:49

>>13
Is better than OP.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-19 1:52

"Citizens in a state are supposed to be equal."

NO, they are supposed to have equality of opportunity, they aren't supposed to BE equal.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-19 13:48

>>15
When we say "be equal", what we REALLY mean is that they're supposed to be treated equally by the government and as equally as possible within the confines of contract enforcement.  I can see that you think the fucking Liberals are out to pull a "Harrison Bergeron" here, but that's largely not the case.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-21 4:32

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-21 8:21

>>16
Shutup. Everyone knows your BLACK.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-21 12:54

>>18
The truth hurts, doesn't it, hickfuck?  Eat a dick.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-21 13:46

>>18
>>Shutup.  Everyone knows your BLACK.
I don't know his black.  I don't know his black at all.

Name: Anonymous 2008-04-21 14:59

>>19
Yes, the truth about your BLACKNESS does indeed hurt. It hurts me to no end that you are so BLACK.

Name: RedCream 2008-04-22 1:07

>>21
Apparently, all that NOM NOM NOM on a dick isn't itself what pains you.

Name: Anonymous 2012-08-16 11:14

Ich bin ein Jude.

Name: Anonymous 2012-08-16 14:12

>>23
You lust for Jews because of your mom! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Name: Anonymous 2012-08-16 22:13

But seriously, how can anyone really hate Jews. They are fun people.

Name: Anonymous 2012-08-17 5:13

Well OP, I would say we need to look at this situation from the standpoint of administrative efficiency.

Let us say you are a major shareholder and member of the board with in depth knowledge and you have to decide how to structure the organization. You would give everyday procedures and running of the plant to managers and major decisions to executives, perhaps if some part of the company requires adaptability you might promote a senior manager and allow him to make informed decisions. You would create processes that allow every employee to report problems or ideas and allow them to be analysed and discusses in a rational manner.

So we would be looking at a mix of centralism and decentralism, but not due to any abstract principle, more due to ground up practicality.

Name: Anonymous 2012-08-17 7:28

>>26
Don't think OP is really reading this anymore after 7 1/2 years.

Name: Anonymous 2012-08-18 6:12

>>27
Well if he needs the input it's there.

Don't change these.
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