Is America # 1?

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
-Thomas Jefferson.



No. 1?

BY MICHAEL VENTURA

Letters at 3AM

No concept lies more firmly embedded in our national character than the
notion that the USA is "No. 1," "the greatest." Our broadcast media are,
in essence, continuous advertisements for the brand name "America Is No. 1."

Any office seeker saying otherwise would be committing political
suicide. In fact, anyone saying otherwise will be labeled "un-American."
We're an "empire," ain't we? Sure we are. An empire without a
manufacturing base. An empire that must borrow $2 billion a day from its
competitors in order to function. Yet the delusion is ineradicable.
We're No. 1. Well ... this is the country you really live in:

. The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (The New York
Times, Dec. 12, 2004). The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries
in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

One-third of our science teachers and one-half of our math teachers did
not major in those subjects. (Quoted on The West Wing, but you can trust
it - their researchers are legendary.)

. Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the Earth. Seventeen
percent believe the Earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week,
Jan. 7, 2005).

�The International Adult Literacy Survey ... found that Americans with
less than nine years of education �score worse than virtually all of the
other countries�� (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European
Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the
American Dream, p.78).

. Our workers are so ignorant, and lack so many basic skills, that
American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT,
Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!

. "The European Union leads the U.S. in ... the number of science and
engineering graduates; public research and development (R&D)
expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).

"Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest
producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70).

Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The
agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21,
2004).

Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28% last year.
Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in
three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year
Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56%, Indians 51%,
South Koreans 28% (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.

The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in
terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was] ... 37th." In
the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United
States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in
the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.

"The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the
world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The
European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a
"developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.

Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American
deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.)
(NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)

"U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the
developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81).
Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the
only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

Twelve million American families, more than 10% of all U.S. Households,
"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves."
Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last
year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004).

The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores
higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

Women are 70% more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe
(NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder
(CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).

"Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its work-force in the 1980s. In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1%" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.

"Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one was European" (The European Dream, p.69).

"Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European. ... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European. ... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering andconstruction company is included among the world's top nine competitors.

In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies ... are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top 10. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).

The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005).

U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).

Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million - one in five - unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).

Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40% of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) “By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom” (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice.

We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.

Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. (Hear that, you poor deluded cowboys?) As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec.12, 2004).

Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.

One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004).

"Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28).

"Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).

"Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004).

"The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004).

No. 1? In most important categories we're not even in the Top 10 anymore.

Not even close.

The USA is "No. 1" in nothing but weaponry, consumer spending, debt, and delusion.

Jeremy Rifkin is a kook.  Anything with his name associated with it loses credibility.

>>3


With no more than a few statistics out of dozens of which one can reasonably bring up the issue of credibility, you choose to invalidate the whole thing on the account of nothing. The premise of this sound article is right on the money. These figures are mostly legitimate and should warrant discussion. Your oblivious views are what is trully deserving of a good saging.

>>3


With no more than a few statistics out of dozens of which one can reasonably bring up the issue of credibility, you choose to invalidate the whole thing on the account of nothing. The premise of this sound article is right on the money. These figures are mostly legitimate and should warrant discussion. Your oblivious views are what is trully deserving of a good saging.

I had "website not responding" and ended up accidentally posting twice. 

Being that Rifkin had nothing to do with the article in the original posting, one can only suspect that the third poster may very possibly be a delusional and jingoistic Bush Administration supporter. He may not have noticed that only one of the above statistics were from that Jeremy Rifkin author.

lol america

america IS #1

our financial markets are the most secure, why do all your favorite countries including china and europe's elite throw their money into american markets, government bonds as well as securities

follow the money. financially, for the global elite america is #1

and what are these ridiculous statistical manipulations:
"Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies"
"the world's top nine competitors"
"Fourteen of the 20 largest"

the fact that he must pick some numbers out of a hat to favorably scale his statistics to fortify his personal opinion is all the more reason to suspect unreasonable bias

"Women are 70% more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe"

women of what class? your out of context statistics lack the accompanying caveats. your entire post is circumstantial and misleading

I can go to school and see solid proof of why America is far from #1. Though our constant elitism on the topic has always been something that's driven us further to better our economy so it can actually be #1. As soon as people start accepting that we're constantly losing the spot, people will start to pick up the pace.

I can go to school and see solid proof of why America is far from #1. Though our constant elitism on the topic has always been something that's driven us further to better our economy so it can actually be #1. As soon as people start accepting that we're constantly losing the spot, people will start to pick up the pace.

sheer gdp numbers, america is number 1

it is not up for debate, it is fact

and stop double posting

The doublepost was courtesy of the fact that the page didn't refresh after sending the information, coupled with the fact that the delete function is disabled.

Is there a source for this?

the delete function is non-existent you yutz

>>10
you go to the wrong school

>>12

U FAIL to post correctly.

The second double-poster isn't the same person as the first one (me).

Poster 8 is showing same symptoms of poster 3 with his "All your favorite countries" slight.

I never said that America wasn't number one, the article did. I would say we are rapidly falling out of the developed world not in economic standing but in various other important areas.

America Number One!  We Love Us A!

>>17

who is "we"

it is a class system here just like anywhere else, the elite are doing quite well and the lower classes are doing no worse than their counterpart classes in the rest of the "developed world", if anything the lower classes here are actually a bit ahead of their counterparts due to the availability of government entitlement programs

nothing like sweden though, which is essentially a welfare state
the government takes care of everyone

the difference is scale, try sweden's model on our population... good luck

america is still the most successful democratic experiment ever, if you have a gripe with certain administration's policies.. that is no reason to defame the american framework and the people who happen to live within it

What's wrong with defaming the American education system? What's wrong with defaming the Healthcare system? What is this, other than having a gripe with government policies?

There are major problems with Education, Healthcare, Pollution, not to mention the Bush Administration granting itself indiscriminate dictatorial powers.

I am the original poster, and I don't know if you were referring to me, but that's my reply if you were.

Do you support the administration that went so far as to exploit our fears of terrorism to make us feel threatened by Iraq so that they could use our military to invade it? I am quite sure that,as a result of corporate interests ushering the neoconservative administration into office to pull off this big profitable scam that,Iraqi people are much more liberated now, and that they may someday be much more safe than they have over the past few decades, but even that cannot undo the cost and havoc that treason has wrought upon this divided country. I cannot support them, and I feel that people such as yourself who are fully capable of thinking objectively, yet who still support this fascist style of government, are part of the problem.

You don't seem to be too worried about them. I think that people who are capable of understanding what's going on yet are complacent with it are probably not fully capable of understanding what's going on because they lack compassion, or maybe they're just sadistic.

>You don't seem to be too worried about them. I think that people who are capable of understanding what's going on yet are complacent with it are probably not fully capable of understanding what's going on because they lack compassion, or maybe they're just sadistic.

its called a difference of opinion combined with a realistic world view

you must maneuver in the environment you are presented with, affect what you can change and don't bitch unprofitably about what you can't

you seem to be incapable of believing intelligent people with other views, who see the same full spectrum, can draw different conclusions than you do

i will never generalize in the negative about america, the same way i will never generalize in the negative about europe, china or iraq

"Is America #1?" the type of deemably inflammatory phrasing you used in your thread topic is a dead giveaway. you have drawn the exact attention you have sought. My european grandfather used to always say "The voice with which you call into the wood is the echo you will get back"

but your tone is what really surprises me, all this frustration... as if corporate-skewed governmental policies were a new thing.. IN ANY COUNTRY

i would venture to guess that your government is no less of a scam, just the magnitude, scale and scope may be different. all government is self-interested. america's scope is what you are really at odds with, we affect others disproportionately.. but that is the price of globalization. you'll have china to bitch about soon... they are just starting

america bashing is old... try something new

the american framework dictates that administrations have two terms - maximum, this is not a dictatorship, i am not worried about what you deem to be permanent damage... all that concerns me are federal bench nominations since they extend far past any administration's 2 terms of power, and they are charged with interpreting the constitution.. they can really change the framework, and they must be yelled about if you have a gripe

in the end the people living under every government we have gone to war with and deposed has thanked us 50 years/generation later, irrespective of our methods, as they eventually gained their own voice to setup their own elected government(which then inevitably corrupts.. but hey, welcome to the real world)

ie once you truly understand what is going on, you eventually quit bitching out of realism

constructive criticism is healthy, just check your tone.. neutrality is prized in logical argumentation, and if you really want to affect anything with your criticism instead of just pontificate to like-minded people... get into government. america
offers a fairly low bar to get into almost anything, "land of opportunity" isn't just a cliche

America stands where Germany stood in 1936.  An elite in power with an agenda.

Back then a large number of Other Nations one day told Germany No.  That's not happening this time.  Why?

>>22

lets say we take over the entire middle east, depose all their dictators, and force them all to have elections

what then? will we be wehrmacht-worthy?

further, lets say they manage to frame a constitution and we'll even stipulate that they elect a puppet/sympathetic government for the first few terms after regime-change shock.. lets even say a puppet government for an entire generation after the change..

what do you think the newborns of 10 years from now will do with political freedom(that they would not have otherwise) will they remember their old allegiances if they are educated in a secular manner? will they then stand for irrational self-defeating views and policies? or will they lack the preconcieved notions and indoctrinations of the current population

all dictators will go. it is a question of time.. and who deposes them/how they are deposed. war is ugly, death taints a generation... "soft-landings" are preferred(as is hoped for with china's eventual regime-change to elected representation)
diplomacy is cheaper. wars are run on cost/benefit analysis.

iraq will be better off, iran will be better off, so will syria
north korea is chinas problem

we have no problem with any democracies, including you europe.. so relax

Well, to answer the question in the topic of this thread... it depends. I'm not going to investigate every statistic the article cites, but I will point out that it is missing one very crucial one. America is #1 because it is most powerful. the US has the most advanced military technology, highest finded military R&D, most nuclear weapons, largest Navy, and best trained and equipped soldiers in the world. That is what really makes a contry #1 when it comes to power concerns. The question really isn't worth asking because the US is so clearly hegemonic.

Nitpick: the US doesn't have the best trained soldiers. They're definitely well-equipped though.

If you are not white, you would hate life in Europe. Despite what europeans say about americans, europe is a MUCH worse place to be if you are not white. Some countries (the UK) are better than others (Austria)

If you are upper middle class or rich, european taxes (in general) are absolutely opressive. Some countries (Switzerland) are better than others (Sweden).

If you are not white and your parents are fairly well-to-do and you are willing to work the US blows teh competition out of the water. For lazy racists europe would be better. The US should ship the KKK to Austria where they would be more at home yelling about niggers, drinking beer and siting on their asses for goverment handouts to aryans.

As far as the topic of the thread goes, I used that title because it's the title of the article. I do think that America is #1, but like I said, we have problems. There are posters here I would like to reply to. I'll be back after the Super Bowl. (Right now it's halftime)

Military power flows from economic power. This is why hegemonies always fail. They start to think they're #1 because they're #1 no matter what. Success is poison.

>>28
trial and error. hegemony v5 will last longer than hegemony v4 did, etc..

the romans got 1000 years and they didnt even have telecommunication satellites. unyieldingly-controlling absolutist empire.. stretched too thin.. was their downfall. failure to shift regional control over to the 'conquered' was the main flaw in their strategy. it boils down to the method of governing extra-national regions: imperial iron fist vs democratic sphere of influence

>Success is poison.
within america very realistic highly-educated people write books about what has been observed and learned from previous attempts at, or failures of, government. the democratic system requires freedom of speech and press, obvious outrages within the system are not allowed to continue endlessly. it is a self-learning, self-correcting system.

>>29
Respectfully, in my opinion what happened to Rome was so complex that entire very thick books have been written about it.  Does the name Gibbon mean anything to you?

Rome's ruling class had indoor plumbing and running water, set up with lead pipes, so a lot of the decisions toward the end were being made by people with moderate to severe lead poisoning damaging their brains.  New foreign religions and superstitions, including one called "Christianity," ate away at the Hellenistic rationalism which was the core of Classical civilization.  These new foreign superstitions also captured the minds of the masses, reducing their loyalty to the state, which was by the 4th Century already at a low ebb due to the corruption and brutality of generations of, first, insane inbred Emperors like Caligula and Commodus, then venal, greedy "barracks Emperors" who took and held power only as long as they could bribe their own bodyguards to not kill them and elevate another ambitious general to the throne, as well as unjust and unequal distribution of wealth.  Rome allowed foreigners to come in and buy Roman citizenship, which they conferred on people who had absolutely no loyalty to Rome or Roman ideals.  Rome allowed hundreds of thousands of barbarians to immigrate, few of whom were willing to fight the Huns when they came.  And so on.  Gibbon wrote hundreds of pages on this, and he wasn't the last.

We study history in the hopes that we, as a civilization, can avoid the worst mistakes of the past.  Of course, George Bernard Shaw said, "The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history."

>>30
well yes, obviously what happened to rome is highly complex.. but most complexity is expanded simplicity, very little is irreducibly complex

was simply referring to rome's method of governing regions other than it's own core, not the issues internal to the roman empire that contributed to its collapse, in that regard you are absolutely correct and have detailed only some of the numerous elements comprising the climate which lead to the demise of rome

"The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history."
this i do not agree with, civilization has advanced quite a lot.. though the human tendency towards greed is as old as humanity itself. the current iteration of the democratic system stressing free press has lead to accelerated realizations of developing weakness which then leads to pre-emptive reform before critical failure

democratizing the world is the best thing that could happen to the world. the internal issues within america such as rampant nepotistic borrowing and spending is a separate issue.. the minority in a democratic system will not stand idly by if the free press exposes _any_ governmental policies as reaching obviously destructive proportions.

i have faith in the self-critical systems currently at work in much of the civilized world, it is actually a false analogy to compare america(or any democracy) to rome, but in a hegemonic sense, there is much to learn about rome's method of extra-national control... and why it failed

"History is the sum of all the things that could have been avoided."  Konrad Adenauer

from the deviant perspective... as some of my disgruntled euro friends like to argue..
"democracy is a virus" meaning the largest democracy will spread democracy to others simply to gain power over the others... simultaneous with giving them internal freedom

its essentially forcing a global ruleset, capitalist democracy in this case, based on trade/economic considerations

once the entire world plays by your rules, and you are the largest player under those rules, in many ways you have won security as well as dominance

yet there is always a give-and-take negotiation process between elected democracies, which would be the one unignorable upside detractors must face.. globally democratic nation-states would never declare war on each other. traditional war would be obsolete leaving only terrorism... which is pretty much where we were headed anyway

either way, america is not nearly as bad as some emotional propaganda parrots would have you believe... but it is definitely  no white angel as the other side's propagandists claim, and while certainly it is self-interested and certain methods employed over the years have been far from noble... the end result, if achieved intelligently, will create a better world

how would democracy stop war from happening?

Democracies historically have been much less likely to be the aggressors in international conflict.  Governments that are accountable to the will of the people have a vested interest in not engaging in behavior that will result in lots of voters' sons coming homein body bags.

Democracies engage in many wars, as long as they're relatively unseen and lossless. Democracies tend to not fight each other, as they have tools for a peaceful settlement of problems, but such tools work best only with other democracies.

>>36
its an all or nothing strategy.. for it to work(as in abolishing war) the entire world must be democratized

>>34
Two true democracies, that allow all adult citizens to vote, have ever fought each other in armed conflict.  You can argue the Germany-WWII thing, but one-party systems don't apply.

Of course, the history of such democracies have been short...

America #1!
America #1!

>>38
>that allow all adult citizens to vote,

Oh, so the United States wasn't a democracy until 1920? Saying all adult citizens is a ridiculous limitation only meant to bolster the rather weak belief (in my opinion) that democracies don't fight wars. When you weaken that you include things like the Mexican-American war, where Mexico was certainly a democracy, with just as much voting rights as the US at that time.

The second part of what you say is probably the most true. The amount of modern democracies have been so small, that we've not really had a chance to see if democracy averts war. Additionally these democracies have tended to be spread far apart from each other, limiting the possible tensions that could lead to war. I bet if we were able to make say Iran and Iraq democracies, it would be a decade or two before they went to war with each other or possibly with Israel.

we should redraw the iran and iraq borders to make various swaths of country for the particular indigenous factions.... the british made those countries out of thin air back when they were empire building

the reason they dont want to redraw is the oil wells are not evenly distributed across the region, ie status quo and pre-existing contracts

iraq just elected the theistic iranian shiite party....  i doubt they'll go to war if the same people are in government in both "countries"
---
modern democracies, multiparty democracies with modern voter rights... these democracies do not go to war with eachother
they may go to economic war with eachother, but thats as far as it goes

I just read the news on that, so you're probably right about Iraq and Iran, but give India and Pakistan some time. They're both democracies. But most of all, truly modern democracies have only existed for 200 years, AT MOST. The entirety of Human Civilization stretches over 8-10 thousand. I'll agree up till now, they do not fight often, but you can't treat that like it's bible fucking law. Everyone being a democracy will never end war, because like Goering said:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

And if anyone knows about bringing people along to do horrible things, it's a Nazi leader.

>>40
No it's not, it's defining a true democracy.  If only the elite(by wealth, leniege, military service(Starship Troopers rep. for yah) is that really a democracy?
>>42
The theory is it's political suicide.  In a country where "democracy" is a byword, leadership can be maintained by force, but if the vote off all citizens is what decides leadership for both sides, it's hard for most to rationalize war between them.  For example the latest US-Iraq conflict; the only way the slim majority would support the war, w/o WMD's being an issue, is that Saddam was a ruthless dictator.  What if it was secular like Turkey?  Not so easy to do.  Now in Iran, all citizens can vote in secret ballots, but the religous officials can only choose the candidates.  Do you see how the war option is pushed on the nuke-talks issue?

Yes, the theory has limited terms, but most theories do, and I'm just going over the International Relaitons-class stuff I learned.  I don't claim creation of it.

>>40
No it's not, it's defining a true democracy.  If only the elite(by wealth, leniege, military service(Starship Troopers rep. for yah) can vote, is that really a democracy?

screwed up, fixed

>>43
>the only way the slim majority would support the war, w/o WMD's being an issue, is that Saddam was a ruthless dictator.  What if it was secular like Turkey?

unfortunately, iraq _was_ secular(for the middle east)

iran is theistic... egypt and lebanon are secular as well(relative to the middle east) but our friend saudi arabia is certainly not secular in the least.

we should have kept saddam up there as a puppet dictator and based a war on iran from iraq... then deal with syria next, this would have removed most of the dangerous theistic dictatorships in the region...

instead we have to first deal with stabilizing iraq and then go after iran... but in the time it took to regime change iraq, iran gained nuclear weapons status. this was a strategic error.

iran > iraq ..since we flattened iraq in `91 it has been a joke, no where near an imminent threat, however you look at it

strategic error lol

LOL true democracies are false, USA's racism offeres inequal representation, England is a sespool a crime, India is too populated, and Pakistan is Loaded with crime. Before you know it Iraq will be under a new and "happy" american friendly dictatorship

Here's a kicker. There's no such ethnic group as a pakistan. The country is a legal fiction based solely on being muslim and thus unable to stand living in the same state with hindus. It's heading straight towards failed state-status.

"Prior to 1947, the country now known as Pakistan was a British colony. In 1947 the United Kingdom granted independence to the region under a new name, Pakistan. The name had been developed by a group of students at Cambridge University who issued a pamphlet in 1933 called Now or Never. They came up with the term "Pakistan" as "composed of letters taken from the names of our homelands: that is, Punjab, Afghania [North-West Frontier Province], Kashmir, Iran, Sindh, Tukharistan, Afghanistan, and Balochistan. It means the land of the Paks, the spiritually pure and clean."

What government ever existed since our ancestors came down from the trees that was NOT a legal fiction?

None. But at least most governments and countries can claim social fiction, a common narrative of history, as well. Pakistan as a state and nation is inherently unstable because they were thrown together without much reference to the subjects and they lack a common narrative. 60 years isn't enough to create a nation, not when the central state can hardly control most parts of the country. Musharraf is still a dictator, and democracy would bring religious nutcases to power. That country is really fucked.

Democracy. Ah. It needs time to grow, it requires civic institutions to form. Democracy can also rot from within. The republic, the state form that uses varying degrees of democracy and claims to represent the people... it is inevitably corrupted by belief in superiority.

>and democracy would bring religious nutcases to power.

unfortunately this is true for almost the entire middle east as well

And the US too.

religion sucks, it should be abolished

cause of all humanities problems

Religion sucks, but humanity's problems have deeper root causes than that.  Labeling anything "the cause of all humanity's problems" strikes me as simplistic, unless maybe you're blaming human nature.

Is America # 1?....... DU we onley like RULE THE FUCKING WORLD. in your face brittan

Is America # 1?....... DU we onley like RULE THE FUCKING WORLD. in your face brittan

moran

HALF OF AMERICA ARE STUPID ASS FUCKERS

HALF OF AMERICA ARE STUPID ASS FUCKERS

Yes, America IS number one.  However, that's still nothing to be proud of.  Being the best country is like being the tallest midget.  The powers that be in America can & do abuse & exploit people all they want, just as long as they exploit them just a little less than the next guy.

I get sick of all these fuckers, mostly conservatives, who say "if j00 dont liek it in ameriKKKa, comie hippie fag, n if j00 cant be pruod of ur country, move to china lol!!!one"  Yes, America is better than China.  But all America has to do to be better than them is refrain from running people over with tanks.  Yeah, that's really something to be proud of.  *Waves flag*

The question is juvenile type of 'we could beat your country up' crap anyway. It's mostly a moot point between first world nations with nuclear weaponry in any large numbers. Other parts that might make a country #1, like standard of living, wealth, healthcare, education, crime rate etc all look like America probably isn't at the very top. There are some very real problems with the country, and with its foreign policy, unfortunately.

That said, it isn't total shit either, and is a fuckload better than a whole bunch of places if you had to choose where to live.

Sssssttt!!!! You spoild the supprise of our evil commie masterplan of overthrowing the worldpower by outpowering them with big numbers!

Our oranges produce more juice than yours! HAHA! wicked man.

...

U.S. death

>>64
us own ur face

you invoked godwin a long time ago. thread over.

America wins!

ミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミ
ミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミ
ミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミ
ミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミ
ミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミミ

*Casts ressurection*

tl;dr but Micheal Ventura's an idiot.