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Where are the Muslim moderates?

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-05 15:37

Where are the Muslim moderates?
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

In 1956, Nikita Khrushchev addressed a closed session of the 20th Congress of the Soviet Communist Party. For nearly four hours, he spoke about the unspeakable: the crimes of his predecessor, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin.

Though listeners were warned not to reveal what was said, and the speech would not be published for 32 years, word leaked out. The most widely told story, probably apocryphal, had it that as Khrushchev was detailing the mass arrests, torture and executions carried out within the Gulag, someone in the audience shouted: "And what were you doing then?"

"Who said that?" Khrushchev demanded. No one made a sound. "I want to know who said that!" he repeated, slamming a fist on the lectern. The audience was silent, trembling in fear. "That's right," Khrushchev said finally. "That's exactly what I was doing."

I am reminded of this story not only because this year is the 50th anniversary of Khrushchev's "secret speech," but also because it may provide at least a partial answer to the questions: Where are all the Muslim moderates? Where are those who oppose terrorism, religious wars, hatred and intolerance? Where are those who think it crazy to attempt to re-create the eighth century in the 21st century? Where are those who want not to destroy the Free World but to join it?

They are out there, I suspect, in larger numbers than we might be led to believe. But if most are silent and fearful of speaking out, can you blame them? The vast majority of Arabs and Muslims live in countries ruled by illiberal and oppressive regimes. And in the few relatively free countries _ Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia _ there is no protection from the long arm of militant Islamism. Indeed, even in Europe it can be dangerous to challenge religious fascism. And last year, Shaker Elsayed, leader of Dar al-Hijrah, one of the largest mosques in the United States, told American Muslims: "The call to reform Islam is an alien call."

Muslims who dissent from this orthodoxy have received precious little support from anyone. As far back as 1989, Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini called for the murder of British author Salman Rushdie. Such a frontal attack on freedom of speech should have prompted Western governments to send Iranian diplomats packing. Instead, Rushdie went into hiding while most Western intellectuals persuaded themselves this quarrel was none of their business.

Since that time, and perhaps partly as a consequence, Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was murdered for making a movie that some Muslims found insulting. Danish journalists who dared publish cartoons satirizing the radicalization of Islam have been threatened. Such formerly courageous publications as The New York Times declined to publish the cartoons, claiming _ unconvincingly _ that they had not been intimidated; they were merely demonstrating sensitivity.

Meanwhile, in Jordan and Yemen, editors who thought their readers deserved to judge the cartoons for themselves were jailed.

The pandering has escalated: Last month, Columbia University held a conference that included as a "highlight" a video of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi presenting "his views on the prospects for democracy in the twenty-first century." Columbia's teachers and administrators are apparently untroubled by the fact that Libya's leading dissident, Fathi Eljami, is currently rotting in one of Gadhafi's dungeons.

And in Tunisia, democracy advocate Neila Charchour Hachicha is under police surveillance _ her phone and Internet connections severed, her car confiscated, her daughter threatened and her husband in prison. What did she do to deserve such punishment? It's not clear, but she did give an interview to Middle East Quarterly (www.meforum.org/article/732) about impediments to reform in Tunisia and she spoke at the "neo-con" American Enterprise Institute about the need for democracy in the Middle East.

The routine imprisonment and torture of dissidents in Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia almost never prompts U.N. officials to consider interfering _ or even criticizing. Once in a while, a Western diplomat expresses concern.

"I keep hearing, 'Why are liberals silent?' " Said al-Ashmawy, an Egyptian judge and author, recently said. "How can we write? Who is going to protect me?"

If we in the West ever want to have allies in Arab and Muslim countries, we'll need to start supporting moderates and stop empowering their oppressors. Most immediately, it would be useful if the American ambassador in Tunis would stop by for a coffee with Hachicha. And perhaps Columbia University President Lee Bollinger _ whose "primary teaching and scholarly interests are focused on free speech and First Amendment issues" _ might recognize how his institution has been compromised and at least express concern.

(Clifford D. May is president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, a policy institute focusing on terrorism.)

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-05 16:40

tl;dr

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-05 18:47

Where are the christian moderates? that's right, there aren't any.

fucking jews, ragheads and christians all need to gb2/oven

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-05 20:34

>>1
what, exactly, is 'moderate' islam supposed to be, anyway?  the author seems to think that moderate muslims are muslims that accept western beliefs and ideals.  this implies either a total ignorance of what makes muslims muslim, or a bizarre redefinition of the word 'moderate'.

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 0:04 (sage)

>>4

A moderate muslim can exist as much as a christian the dosen't stone gay.

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 1:17

>>3

WTF this makes no sense, I don't see any christians burniing shit down over cartoons, I don't see them starting most of the conflicts around the world, so why is it that every islamofascist appologist needs to somehow equate christianity to the death cult?

Remember this when a Christian does something heinous s/he does so *against* his/her religion's teachings, when a muslim does it he does it in accordance with the Quaran!

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 1:41

Islam is the bastard child of Christianity.

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 5:49

>>7

More like the hated kid brother

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 13:32

>>7
Christianity is the bastard child of Judaism (and Paganism). The bad parts are mostly the Judaic parts -- the angry sky god, fire and brimstone stuff. Islam too, shares this common heritage.

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 14:04

>>1

muslim moderates, lol! while we're at it, let's look for the pussy-eating faggots, ok?

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 17:30

>>6
Christians haven't started most wars?  Christians ruined the Middle East in the first place. 

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-06 18:01

>>11

go read a history book.

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-07 2:29

>>11
>>Persia and the Ottomans ruined the Middle East in the first place.
fix't.

Name: Anonymous 2006-04-08 1:13 (sage)

>HELLO VIPPERS!!! IF YOU POST STUPID SHIT IN THIS FORUM I SHALL BAN YOU IMMEDIATELY!
 
lol 4chan

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-11 16:46

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I BEAR WITNESS THAT MUHAMMAD IS ALLAH'S MESSENGER.
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COME TO THE PRAYER, COME TO THE PRAYER.
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COME TO YOUR GOOD, COME TO YOUR GOOD.
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THERE IS NO DEITY BUT ALLAH.
ALLAH IS THE GREATEST, ALLAH IS THE GREATEST.
ALLAH IS THE GREATEST, ALLAH IS THE GREATEST.
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ALLAH IS THE GREATEST, ALLAH IS THE GREATEST.

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-13 9:14

A friend of mine once asked an old German, «Were all Germans Nazis in the 1930's?»
The answer was something like this:

They weren't really Nazis, most of them; they were just fed up with their home country having been basically castrated and hogtied by shit like the Versailles Treaty, and wanted a strong and glorious Germany that they could be proud of again.
Enter some Austrian loudmouth that promises them just that. And appears to make a convincing case of it, at that.

And so most Germans were game with much of Mr.H's antics, especially as long as Germans were being given a single, German nation as a result (Sudetenland Annexation, Anschluss, etc). Only when Mr.H went on to invade (non-German) Czechoslovakia, did they feel the need to admit there was some serious BS going on.
But then, Mr.H and his friends had become too powerful, and the people had no choice but to march on, to an even more shameful fate than even the Versailles Treaty had managed to drum up.


Muslims nowadays seem to have a similar view on Osama bin-Goldstein — erm, bin-Laden. They have plenty of reasons to hate the West (most of which will never be aired on FauxNews), and so they grasp at the straws offered by the first strawman revolutionary that lives long enough to make a convincing-looking case.


Oh, and most of those terrorists in those oh-so-not-Orwellian Brotherhoods, don't really have much of an education. This is (mainly) because when superpowers have a cold war and install puppet regimes in smaller nations, those puppet regimes don't want their populations to start making awkwardly reasonable demands, like actual democracy. And, as seen from places like the ghettos in the US, the best way to avoid that, is to phuxx0r their education.

(Inb4 «Cold War's over»: No it ain't. Oh, the one between USA and USSR maybe, but whoever's calling the (actual) shots over in Downtown Central Yankeeland (protip: not Obama), keep needing a bogeyman scarecrow to keep the people in line. Exit the big-but-tangible USSR, enter some diffuse 1984-style Brotherhood Against Big Brother that <scary_voice>could be anywhere!</scary_voice>.)


Tl;dr: You phuxx0r someone's schooling, and he may be aware that his life sucks, but he won't really know why, much less start making convincing plans to improve his neighborhood –himself– in any meaningful way. More importantly, you can stuff him full of bullshit «explanations» about how it's that bogeyman over there that's to blame, and that said bogeyman needs a lesson in manners.
The systematic lack of education makes him unable to call bullshit.

Name: kingofhz 2013-04-13 22:00

>>16
Perhaps what they don't know can hurt them, so they are too afraid to learn.

Name: Anonymous 2013-04-14 15:22

>>16
What's funny is Bin-Laden was blowback from the CIA funding and supporting the Mujahideen to fight a proxy war against the Soviet Union, only to have the Afghans later fight against the US for the very same reason. Basically, they have to keep the population focused on a boogeyman because of their constant incompetence.

Name: Anonymous 2013-06-06 3:17

Honestly; the Shi'ites are the most moderate Muslims.  They get a bad rap thanks to Khomeini, but Khomeini didnt develope his ideology until he met Wahhabist imams in France.  Wahhabism is the cancer killing modern Islam.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-17 14:31

>>18
Bin-Laden was blowback from the CIA funding
Hence the reference to Orwell's 1984 and Emmanuel Goldstein.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-17 14:40

>>19
The West really shouldn't act innocent about Khomeini and his ilk; not only did the Shah overthrow a democratically elected president, he stayed in power with Western help. Up to and including the point where the opposition leaders were murdered, all except the one man that the Shah couldn't bring himself to take that seriously: Khomeini.

And so, when the people decided they'd had enough of the Shah, they rallied around the one leader still available: Khomeini.

On a related note: The Shah was said to have preferred to have been ousted by Communists rather than Islamists, as even they were more progressive &stuff. After all, he'd been trying do modernize Iran. Just to show he wasn't _all_ bad…

…but then, AFAIR, Mossadeq had also tried to make Iran independent of foreign oil corpoliticals. Which is why he was ousted by the (US-backed) Shah (and this particular clusterfuck got started) in the first place…

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-21 12:29

I just wish they used deodorant.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-26 12:53

lol dr

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 12:12

You expect anyone to read all that shit?

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 23:26

is antiperspirant contrary to islam?

Don't change these.
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