Your thoughts on how man kind still depends on a form of a god, diety or higher form. Myself, I still think of an afterlife but nessicarly a Christian, Budist, Muslam, Shintouistic after life. More or less a re-incarnation-like system. I believe a final afterlife provides inequalitly, and that if souls just go and dont return, how are they reproduced, and how can it balenced out?
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-10 20:23 (sage)
when u die you simply cease to exist,there is nothing after death,dont delude yourself
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-10 21:21
I think it's basic animal psychology. You expect to have a "master" that can take care of you and empathise with all your thoughts. Or you expect a judge to bring all that is wrong to justice. Look at how a dog looks up to its owner, or a girl acts dependent on a guy.
We subconsciously want something on a higher level to say "I understand."
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-11 2:59
Religion is THE opiate for the masses.
Seriously, we all want to be loved, in this cruel, cold world. People shouldn't mix religion and other bullshit with it.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-11 8:27
is this World News
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-11 13:25
"Opiates are the mass of my religion! I pull coca leaves off the trees and push them directly into my veins!" --Reverend Ivan Stang
Name:
AnonimusCobardis2005-02-12 1:28
Religion really is the opiate for the masses. At least in its current form. They do nothing but keep the stupidest of the stupid (aka - MOST OF THE EARTH'S POPULATION) in stupidity and ignorance. 15th centuries of inquisition OH LAWDS.
Anyway, religion should die already. It should switch to the "philosophical movement" it should've always been. Trying to make people think instead of living in blind faith.
The existance of a god is logical for me. Every great work has a great engineer and great craftsmen behind it. The odds of the universe being created through RANDOM events are extremely low. And it's also the simplest explanation available (Occam's razor anyone?).
As for life after death, I do believe that life goes on after death, and in reincarnation. If it doesn't, well that's a scary thought for our self-centered human egos, but ah heck, humanity will go on and you won't care about it because you can't and no one else will because they will die too! If life does go on, well, it's all good.
So... these are my beliefs. As I don't know if they are true or not, I'll simply wait until I'll get an answer or fall into the nothingness of organic death. Since I don't know what will be waiting us at the doors of death, I'll try to be a good person just in case. If it doesn't help me going to heaven or becoming a better being, it'll at least help humanity a little bit.
These are my 50 cents of life and post-life beliefs.
Name:
AnonimusCobardis2005-02-12 1:30
Religion really is the opiate for the masses. At least in its current form. They do nothing but keep the stupidest of the stupid (aka - MOST OF THE EARTH'S POPULATION) in stupidity and ignorance. 15th centuries of inquisition OH LAWDS.
Anyway, religion should die already. It should switch to the "philosophical movement" it should've always been. Trying to make people think instead of living in blind faith.
The existance of a god is logical for me. Every great work has a great engineer and great craftsmen behind it. The odds of the universe being created through RANDOM events are extremely low. And it's also the simplest explanation available (Occam's razor anyone?).
As for life after death, I do believe that life goes on after death, and in reincarnation. If it doesn't, well that's a scary thought for our self-centered human egos, but ah heck, humanity will go on and you won't care about it because you can't and no one else will because they will die too! If life does go on, well, it's all good.
So... these are my beliefs. As I don't know if they are true or not, I'll simply wait until I'll get an answer or fall into the nothingness of organic death. Since I don't know what will be waiting us at the doors of death, I'll try to be a good person just in case. If it doesn't help me going to heaven or becoming a better being, it'll at least help humanity a little bit.
These are my 50 cents of life and post-life beliefs.
Hay man, yes, religion is good for controlling the masses, but is that good? Power angry religious leaders say "YESSIR".
Human beings should learn to be good by themselves. Proof is, even with religion they behave bad as is! If it's not for their sake, or karma, or whatever, it's for the sake of humanity.
Peace.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-12 14:31
then buddhism is for you, as the most scientific religion
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-13 12:32
How is Buddhism scientific?
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-14 2:59
Buddhism sans mysticism is nice. Remove the monks, the resurrection bullshit and all that, and it's pretty cool as far as philosophies go. But, in it's all-life-is-holy thing, it's ironically far too anti-life. Without struggle and want, there is no life. The endpoint of buddhism is return to wantless, IDless LCL soup ala End of Evangelion. No fucking thanks.
good read, buddhism is closer to nihilism than many will admit
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-15 20:57
>>14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
"Without a standard base on which to build a system of morality (God, law, ideals of freedom, justice, etc.), what is right and wrong is to some extent arbitrary."
That's the polar opposite of Buddhism.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-16 0:13
>>15
ideologically, the conclusion of both is the same - the goal is to become nothing
the laws which respective subscribers are to live by, though...
are obviously very different between the two
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-16 2:48
The goal of Buddhism is to be one with all and thus, nothing. Nihilism in common use means "I don't give a shit, I'll do what I want" but can also be interpreted as "Nothing matters, I might just as well become nothing"... but very few people can give up the thirst of life. Even suicide is a motion on will.
My personal philosophy goes beyond nihilism. All values are simply a network of irrational judgements and thus their value is relative to each other and mostly a personal preference, though human the animal has some natural inclinations. It's not tabula rasa but a node in a network. If I like something, I like something. I'm entirely free to change my mind and often rational discourse(yet based on irrational wants) changes by preferences.
Values are a living, changing network, brain being a microcosm of it, a model.
There is no life without change. Perfect is static, perfect is dead. Fuck heaven.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-16 3:54
by preferences -> my preferences. Oh well.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-17 4:47
The main teaching in bhuddism are
suffers are caused because of
- Lust
- Love
- Hate
and thats it. the monk shit in china and those fukn mystical history in buddhism are bullshit. why do i think its the most scientific? hell yes, because buddhism doesnt teach people to obey god and shit.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-18 8:01
/agreed Yellowheads are far more efficant because of their godless ways>>19
>>20
Agreed, believing in humanity commanding itself rather than a God commanding us around should make us more efficient.
Well, at least in theory. SUP BUBBLE ECONOMIES.
Name:
Canuck2005-02-21 12:16
Neat I kind of made somthing...........
to quote a 11yr old "communist" I HATE MONIES BANN MONEY!!1!
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-21 14:48
>>17
a model of relative values is the most realistic view on values you can take, they are indeed rather arbitrary and easily changed by societal whim
when you speak about irrational human inclinations, i assume you are excluding the reproductive drive.. for that is demonstrably an animal trait
macro-biological human reproduction in the same way that cells undergo mitosis and split for some reason micro-biologically, runs us into this same force of procreation - this "force of life" somehow must create more of itself... why is that? what wills it to continue existing trans-temporally, why hasn't it just stopped, what keeps it going, is it programmed by design to do this endlessly? trial and error ad infinitum? what is it trying for? what does it want to achieve? can such an inexhaustible unyieldingly probabilistic complexity-breeding force have emerged purely by accident... over unfathomable time, bred the most basic sub-atomic particle systems into biological entities with self-aware intelligence? an exponentially growing intelligence, intelligence to the point of tracing back this evolution-from-chaos process and attempting to understand and ultimately re-create the process, thereby achieving the 'power of god", or in other words a complete mastery of the environment in which this intelligence exists... an environment which it progressively becomes more aware of through temporal probabilistically-selective iteration
do you believe that human inclinations are somehow pre-built into some over-arching human subconsciousness?
or
do you believe inclinations are in fact learned by social mimic through a neurologically formative process during the exponentially accelerated environmental-awareness stage of infant brain development?
the first would imply some murky concept of either a unified force of life that can contain substantive programming but only physically manifests itself in 3 separate physical forces known to physicists and that their relation as a single force is just not understood yet, due to the incomplete nature of the current perceptive ability available to this particular iteration of biological intelligence.... then of course there is always the much easier concept of some intervening deity zapping new human brains("souls" i suppose) with a system of inherent base-morals.. making you inherently "feel bad" when you do "bad things"and inherently "feel good" when you do "good things".. you would then supposedly be accountable for doing "bad things" when your "soul" is judged in an "after-"life.. too many ""'s for me, personally
the second would imply that the intelligence spawned from consciousness is simply a neurological mechanism that can be eventually understood fully and proven fully, the neurosciences are still in their infancy... once neuroscience can conclusively explain every process involved in the formation of intelligent self-aware consciousness, then a massive anti-deity _proof_ will be arguable against the irrationally religious of the world. a conclusively verifiable neuroscientific understanding of self-aware consciousness from the neuro-mechanical level up to the psychological processes will all but negate the logical reliance on a "god of the gaps". it would also imply that with such a complete understanding you could engineer intelligence via targeted neurological over-development based on specific environmental stimulus. this would be a markedly exponential step up, an outside intelligence intervening in the standard evolution of general intelligence rather than leaving it up to chaotic experimentation on randomness, the cumulative development of intelligence would increase in pace massively. the road where this leads is what scares the religious so gravely.. with full reign on this type of experimentation we will have rapidly accelerated the scientific project to dis-prove "god"
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-22 22:33
Biology is not teleological. With the Human Genome Project and all the progress made in genetic engineering in the past fifteen years, humanity stands now at the brink of an era in which biology can, and likely will, become teleological. But it isn't yet.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-22 22:59
>>25
yes we are incrementally understanding more, but we can logically extrapolate a teleological nature to biology as with any other functioning system, albeit completely unprovable by definition. time is the limiting factor, we will never see the ends to these means as individuals
the rationale of accounting for a telic process derived from a chaotic base is rooted more in philosophy of incredulity and statistical improbability than in verifiable science
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-24 2:07
Any truly strong teleological argument requires us to look outside the system. Only an effect without cause can be construed as a living god. As for human consciousness, perhaps we can find out about that by creating a perfect model and asking the bastard. Of course, "I" might be just hallucinating and this world is just a lie. Maybe my consciousness is just a hard-wired lie and it's just a machine stuck on a loop, claiming it's a real person. For now, I must, to not end up in a soft cell, accept this world and my mind as real.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-24 6:05
>Only an effect without cause can be construed as a living god.
we have a mathematically plausible theory for the big bang, though it requires an 11 dimensional construct of which only a slice contains our 3 physical dimensions
so lets stipulate that the big bang ceases to be mysterious, the root question of a teleological "effect without cause" then continues moving up the scale to what created the 11 dimensional arena in which our 3 dimensions exist
mind you this 11 dimensional model is a promising mathematical theory with many elegant unifications... but while it hints at "the truth" by mathematical coincidence, it is far from a mature hypothesis at this stage
we are stuck in essentially an endless process of tracing the impulse cause of creation out of nothingness, then again... in a way, nothingness is a creation in itself
the "reason" for space existing is the question, the concept of sheer existence(of anything) smacks of teleological innuendo
cells continue to split endlessly and create more of themselves merely to exist, in a biological continuity which fights the dimension of time. why is mere existence such a powerful purpose with exponential developmental abilities if there is no teleological end-goal to it? this is the logic of incredulity
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-24 20:45
Why would the perfect create something? How can the perfect will - for what he wills already is. Has it always existed? Is the universe part of God? The universe is imperfect, therefore it is less than god. It is but a slice.
Perhaps the universe is just a facet of the eternal which always has been, always will be. A slice of the multiverse. God is dead, long live god.
Increasing complexity requires reason? Chaos clusters, breaks up and finds new connections. Higher order is, perhaps, just a sign of the expanding and cooling universe. The increasing complexity might just be crystallization of this slice - time being just another dimension, it rotates. Complexity and simplicity are just on the other sides of the slice. To prove primary intent/god, we cannot look at the universe from within it. We can speculate and even discover unlimited dimensions, but we can never, ever look outside the system, because then we'd be equal to the perfect. For subjects there is no end-goal. In eternity, there is no goal. The goal posts shift ever further. Proof means looking outside the box, and that my friend is what we cannot do.
I must stop repeating myself. I'm a strong agnostic and cannot be swayed - it is impossible to know. We may study physics and find infinite layers, but the study of metaphysics is only useful in shaping the tools - there is nothing to be found in it.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-24 23:10
>>29
i agree with almost nothing you just posted in that rather incoherent manner, you seem to be poorly regurgitating some illogically insistent a-theistic talking points in a convoluted block of unsubstantiated non-sequiturs
"cannot be swayed"
this is opposite of keeping an open mind to scientific progress and logical discourse. plus, no one is here to sway you... believe what you will
"there is nothing to be found in it."
it is outrageously arrogant to state this, on what authority do you claim this assertion
"multiverse. God is dead, long live god."
the second first: what?
second, the 11 mathematical dimensions utilized in m-theory are not alternate-reality copies of our 3-dimensional universe ala sci-fi, they are mathematically provable constructs more analogous to "compactified layers" within our same 3-dimensions, the same reality
"The increasing complexity might just be crystallization"
this is an interesting, almost poetic turn of phrase, though you negate yourself with this:
"the universe is just a facet of the eternal which always has been, always will be"
how can something increase in complexity and be cooling and "crystallizing" if it has always been, crystallization implies a process. a process must have a beginning, an initialization.
the real question is: what is the nature of this underlying force that has evolved energy into matter into biology into intelligence, the chances of such a chain of evolution occurring so formulaically are statistically astronomical... this process of complexity-building seems to have been pre-loaded into the mechanics of the universe. further it has likely occurred in other locations of the universe, there is no reason to logically assume that we are unique in our development.
regarding your "outside the box" metaphysical line of argumentation, of which there can be no proof by definition.. i'll end with this...
<unfounded speculation> perhaps "god" is bored with being perfect... so to kill time he started an experiment going.. and he will only show himself after some statistical hiccup on a random planet somewhere proves itself worthy by perceiving his full design. or, perhaps a true understanding of the full design IS "god" and our inherently-limited biological perceptions will only be capable of such an understanding after many more millennia of mysteriously-driven complexity-building evolution of intelligence. </unfounded speculation>
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-25 0:33
When idiots try to talk about string theory, m theory or any theoretical modern physics they end up sounding 2x as dumb. Quit trying to use hip buzzwords or a real physicist will flip out and kick your ass.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-25 1:00
>>31
i welcome all challengers, i went to the same lectures as everyone else
that analogy of physical dimensionality out of mathematical necessity is 100% accurate
Name:
Real Ultimate Power2005-02-25 12:38
>>31
Especially if he is a ninja. The purpose of a ninja physicist is to flip out and kill people. They fight all the time.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-26 11:50
>>31
flip by mumbling and breathing stale coffee breath on them more like
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-28 7:12
Tell me, what is behind the strings? What are dimensions made of? What are the "strings" made of? The well has no bottom... what we now are trying to think about is but a layer behind which is another layer. When I say multiverse, I say there is a greater perfection that contains universes that are different from ours, as well as perfectly same. It contains all logic and illogic. It's rules are same and different. What we see is just a projection, a slice through infinite dimensions, each dimension a rule. I cannot be swayed, because there is no science in what is essentially magic and feel-good bullshit. Nobody cares. "God" is the perfect, and we only see a miniscule slice of the perfect, the all-encompassing. Our world is a limited one. When we die out, the whole isn't changed, because all moments are within it. See wher I'm going? It does not care. It simply is. Dead. Through limited vision we see life. Perfect and all-encompassing is always dead, for it cannot be made imperfect OR more perfect, and it cannot move sideways - it is already there.
right, so lets do nothing. obviously.
wonderful, another closet nihilist... you guys make me laugh
every layer we uncover, comprehend, and finally master using the scientific process, from theory to experimental verification... brings us one marked step-up in our scope of understanding. life is a process not a conclusion. if the scientific community followed your view, we would still be chiseling pictograms into cave walls. we have gone very far scientifically and humanity has benefited greatly from our discoveries at each milestone... regardless of how you try to trivialize the effort
>>there is no science in what is essentially magic and feel-good bullshit
what you state as fact is outright opinion, i suggest you present a less emotional argument if you wish to be taken seriously http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/-search=8420909.1/1126-6708/2004/07/070
even within the restrictive framework of the standard model there is very real experimentally verifiable theory being actively produced by the top scientific institutions in the world.
there are new quantum particles being actively discovered at colliders... the theory is that each has a symmetrical partner and this exact prediction is panning out, as per theory. the top quark was only recently discovered in the late 90s.
one should at least identify ones environment down to its base quanta before spewing such blatantly uninformed arrogance about its mechanics. you know nothing of what you speak, you are baselessly stabbing in the dark. science does not stab in the dark. mathematics does not stab in the dark. science builds on itself, people dedicate their lives to further the discovery, comprehension and application of the knowledge derived from our environment; while you sit tall there in your chair insisting that all is naught
enjoy wasting your admittedly worthless life. or don't, but at the very least educate yourself before going off on these metaphysical tirades in an attempt to generalize about sciences you know nothing about
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-28 12:49
Nihilist? I already said I'm not. I'm just saying, you should stop looking for outside reasons for your life and just live it. Science cannot solve "god", period. We can find out about what we can measure and theorize about that, but that's it. It just is.
Life as a process is an illusion of time, it tends towards more complexity but that too is an illusion of our limited scope.
I'm not saying there's no use in science, on the contrary. Our material world is massively more developed because of it. What I am saying is that you can't find the meaning of it all through it, because there is none. Call me a nihilist and be wrong, there is happiness and value in simply living and trying to do so, instead endlessly pontificating about it's reason. We may understand everything we can see and uncover everything there is to uncovr, but we cannot understand that which cannot be seen, and that which does not exist in any meaningful sense.
If all there is is probabilities, the paths not taken don't disappear, we simply lose scope of them.
Name:
Anonymous2005-02-28 23:05
>>Life as a process is an illusion of time, it tends towards more complexity but that too is an illusion of our limited scope.
>>If all there is is probabilities, the paths not taken don't disappear, we simply lose scope of them.
what fact supports these statements? you are back to baselessly insistent metaphysical argumentation
>>and that which does not exist in any meaningful sense.
read this again:
"one should at least identify ones environment down to its base quanta before spewing such blatantly uninformed arrogance about its mechanics."
any physical system must be first reduced to the full spectrum of its component parts before claiming an understanding of its purpose, or lack thereof. your positive claim about the nonexistence of purpose is purely ridiculous
anyone alive this millennia must concede that they will not obtain even the basal componential knowledge of our physical system within their lifetimes. life exists consequentially, to continue the exploratory process regardless of the inherent limitation of time on individual biological entities, at the very least there is a demonstrable purpose to the microcosmic cultural system that has formulaically developed within linguistically enabled intelligence clusters: incremental environmental knowledge.
to what end? this is the unanswerable question and anyone who asserts positively in this regard is entirely fooling themselves
Name:
Anonymous2005-05-03 13:07
win ninjas nrent flipping out and killing people ther fliying.
Name:
Anonymous2008-11-18 1:56
>>3
Are you suggesting that Humans were once ruled over by a superior species?
Hello, readers of 4chan text boards. I have recently come across some disturbing evidence. We have a traitor among us who is trying to shut 4chan down for copyright violations. I have tracked him down and discovered his Wikipedia page.