Continuing from /u/

Just a continuation of the subject from /u/, there was quite a discussion going and (usually) we get shouts of "quit yapping and post moar pics."

The subject was, at first, why do some of us have no trouble fapping/shlicking to anime, but have no interest in real life stuff? Though it went into many other subjects.

I'd be rather interested to hear (from anyone here) how guys can consider themselves straight if they indeed like the idea of doing sexual things with other men. Or why a person would feel better in another gender's body.

Post a replacement thread on /u/ so that people can find this on /u/.

Okay, some of the questions that went unanswered were:

What about if you need viagra one day? What if you loose interest in normal sex without certain fetishes? And how often are you capable of fucking? You're probably just scared of the idea that you might be less straight than some other men.

Since I'm still not clear on it, can someone explain how these relate?

Here comes my copy-paste:
File :1198787100.jpg-(112 KB, 452x800, TMH3_Doujinshi_SideStory_1.jpg)
112 KB :/ Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)15:25 No.261555 

    Dear /u/,

    I browse /u/ every so often and get off to it, but can never get off to girls in real life, only guys. :/ Does this make me pseudo-bi or something?

    Also, doujinshi like these plz.

Marked for deletion (old).
>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)15:32 No.261561

    Bicurious?

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)15:40 No.261564

    >>261561

    Bicurious to animu only? No fun. :/ Hmmmm

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)16:14 No.261571

    Maybe you haven't met the right girl.

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)16:37 No.261581

    >>261555

    Not really, you`ll just praise the lord you haven´t yet seen the girl you love. When that happens, you`ll dream about her everynight and not even the most atractive man in the wolrd will divert you.
    Until then, enjoy it...

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)16:40 No.261584

    >>261581

    D: the hell dude, now I'm SCARED of looking for a nice girl.

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)16:45 No.261589

    >>261584

    That´s love.

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)16:47 No.261593

    >>261589

    ;_;

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)16:51 No.261595

    >>261581
    IAWTC

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)19:21 No.261639

    okay, bump for an answer that doesn't scare me straight. D:

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)20:12 No.261658

    Dear OP,

    In real life I'm a lesbian leaning towards asexual. Online I like yuri, yaoi and very rarely hentai.

    To conclude: pornography has nothing to do with sexuality.

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)20:38 No.261664

    >>261658

    Orly? :/ Hmm.

    Well, thanks. :D

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)21:07 No.261673

    >>261664
    I find it rather sad that you're taking advice from other's personal preferences and giving that response like it also applies to you. >_> It doesn't apply to you unless you really think that.. but you sound gullible.. you're probably straight and think yuri is hot, whatever.

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)21:57 No.261685

    >>261658
    um wtf, not nothing

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)22:00 No.261689

    >>261673

    Didn't really think it applied to me, but I was thankful for the thought. :D

>>    Anonymous 12/27/07(Thu)22:33 No.261695
     File :1198812838.jpg-(39 KB, 640x480, ShizuruScary.jpg)
39 KB

    >>261639

>>    Anonymous 12/28/07(Fri)12:14 No.261985

    lol sauce?

>>    Anonymous 12/28/07(Fri)23:24 No.262369

    I'm a straight married guy, but I like yaoi manga. But not the hardcore stuff, just romantic fluff. Then again I don't really like hardcore yuri either. The only thing I really get off on are safe driving threads on /e/ and sometimes /h/ or /s/ or jiggly /gif/s. I love big boobs.

>>    Anonymous 12/28/07(Fri)23:29 No.262372

    I love yuri, but RL lesbian stuff does nothing for me.

>>    Anonymous 12/28/07(Fri)23:40 No.262380

    OP, I'm basically the same way but for /y/. I consider myself a straight man; you can consider yourself straight or bi, whatever makes you more comfortable. Unfortunately, you're going to have to fight about it either way, because you're in a sort of in-between place and people resent things that are hard to categorize.

>>    sage sage 12/29/07(Sat)00:00 No.262400

    -What you masterbate to is not necessarily what you desire in your real-life relationships.

    -2D does not equal 3D. Ink on paper characters are not the same as real flesh and blood people.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)00:08 No.262407

    >>262400
    So you're providing a thought-out, topical response, and also sageing? You are an odd duck.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)00:34 No.262414
     File :1198906458.jpg-(26 KB, 290x450, lesbo.jpg)
26 KB

    If this does nothing for you, you're not a lesbian.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)00:36 No.262415
     File :1198906562.jpg-(100 KB, 640x480, 1084217694.jpg)
100 KB

    Posting yuri to compensate.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)00:53 No.262428

    >>262414
    Terrible, terrible, terrible. The pretense and fakery here just makes me sick.
    Don't know about anyone else here, though, but I HATE pretense in matters like these.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)00:55 No.262430
     File :1198907752.jpg-(501 KB, 906x1280, 1192418838611.jpg)
501 KB

    >>262414
    I'm a lesbian and it does nothing because I've seen it so many fuckin times it burns my eyes. Oh, and I watch gay and lesbian porn. Easier for me to get off to gay stuff, but I want nothing to do with penis's. I like gay stuff because you know that they get off, lesbian stuff it's almost 99% faked. I've just gotten tired of it.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)00:56 No.262431

    >>261555
    >>261658
    What about traps?

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)01:01 No.262438

    >>262430
    I also hate the fakery which is why I like drawn things more. Surely they can't be faked.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)04:54 No.262507

    I'm a guy who likes soft yaoi... but guys don't do it for me out in the world. So, yes, they are separate and not equal.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)05:17 No.262510

    I have no desire whatsoever to actually have sex with another woman, yet I still find lesbian porn arousing. All of the men I view as attractive are incredibly effeminate. I hate masculinity, but I hate vaginas as well. I love traps, scenefags, crossdressers... hell, throw me a dickgirl, I guess.

    Sexual preference is a pretty weird thing, and it can't always be neatly categorized into bi, gay or straight.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)05:40 No.262512

    Give it time...

>>    Anonymouse 12/29/07(Sat)05:41 No.262513
     File :1198924860.jpg-(263 KB, 757x1099, 19783_8507.jpg)
263 KB

    I'm still as of yet a touch inexperienced in the ways of posting on image boards, so if this looks odd I apologize, but getting to the matter at hand...

    I tend to agree with the idea that sexuality isn't as simple as a single category. It's like saying your personality would fit into categories as well, when, in my views at least, no one person is anything less than the unique sum of their own individual life-experiences. Best to simply approach whatever you see as its' own experience, be it looking at yuri, yaoi, porn or art, or meeting new people. Be honest with yourself, and the answers will come...

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)06:05 No.262515

    What is this faggotry? Are anons having ACTUAL conversations? Productive ones, at that?!

    WTF?

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)06:07 No.262516

    >>262430
    Moar of this. I creamed quite a bit of it.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)06:08 No.262517

    >>262515
    Welcome to /u/, where we prefer walking slowly, our dresses clean of folds, and pleasant conversation.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)06:19 No.262520

    >>262517
    this is still 4chan.

    /discussion

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)06:21 No.262521

    >>262515
    /u/ actually has a fair number of discussion threads. It's the main reason I come here. Of course, sometimes people flip out at the lack of lesbian funtime images and spam them, but it IS 4chan.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)07:48 No.262539

    /a/ has intelligent discussion threads too. What's your point? /u/ is still 4chan. Don't like it, go to another site.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)08:26 No.262543

    /r/ the motivational poster about pleasant conversation,please.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)08:31 No.262545

    WARNING - guy posting - WARNING

    1. I blame lesbians, I can no longer get off to "normal" porn, I find lesbian porn (however fake) to be more sensual...

    2. As a female friend told me, women are more sexually aroused or turn off by what they see, its how they get off to two guys doing it or get turned off by lurking /b/.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)08:33 No.262546

    >>262545
    Feeling and sense seems to be many girls' thing, it's like how most of them like foreplay. Some of my straight friends complain about their sex life saying it's rather boring and only full of penetration.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)09:35 No.262552

    ok, guy posting.
    if OP is a female, then it could be seen as a reverse position of myself.
    When I watch porn, I get off to watching women get off. So most of the stuff I watch is in fact lesbian porn, hence being on /u/. I do watch some heterosexual porn, however I steer clear of threads on /b/ and the like that's just filled with blowjobs, in which case it's guys watching guys get off, which is basically what I'm seeing here, just gender reversal :P

    ignore this if required, just thuoght you'd like some extra input.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)10:10 No.262560

    ITT extreme confusion

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)10:15 No.262562

    im also a gy who only digs yuri, occasional straight stuff, but it always feels weird. I also desire to change my gender in the future.

>>    possible reasons Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)10:42 No.262565
     File :1198942933.jpg-(80 KB, 593x800, yuri0001.jpg)
80 KB

    >>261555
    Perhaps a few reasons real girls aren't doing it for you are:

    In anime/manga /u/ the emotions of the girls are well illustrated and you get the impression that they are enjoying it, in to it, and not simply posing for a picture or video. The big eyes of girls in /u/ help evolve that emotion. With drawings you also cut out some imperfections be it spots, flap, or something asymmetrical (like a bend nose, wandering eye, bad hair, over sized or undersized proportions, and perhaps a bad camera angle or setting.

    There probably is a few pictures of girls in real life that will turn you on, but they would probably be difficult to find, and in a search for them you would probably come across a huge amount that would disgust you and turn you off.

    That's my two cents

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)10:42 No.262566

    >>262552
    Well, same here. The only thing I'm interested in porn is seeing women get pleasured and hearing them moan, so I occassionaly watch even tentacle hentai...I just make it "nicer" in my mind.

    >guys watching guys get off

    Which is pretty fucking gay

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)13:30 No.262593

    >>262566
    I third this sentiment.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)13:51 No.262594
     File :1198954277.jpg-(357 KB, 1704x1200, 2533.jpg)
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    >>261581
    Are you sure you're 18? You sound like I was when I was 12 years old and had my first crush.

    >I hate masculinity, but I hate vaginas as well
    Why do you have to sound so immature? I haven't heard things like this since I was a young teenager. Is the human body gross to you or something? It would be pretty weird to be offended by it.

    >I also desire to change my gender in the future.
    A question if I may. If you can see all kinds of people post and enjoy pictures here on 4chan, whether they're male or female, why does it matter what you look like on the outside? Sexual preference isn't a big deal nowadays, so why not just like what you like and forget about what the world sees about you? Or the classic phrase: "Why don't you just be you?"

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)14:32 No.262610

    >>262594
    >A question if I may. If you can see all kinds of people post and enjoy pictures here on 4chan, whether they're male or female, why does it matter what you look like on the outside? Sexual preference isn't a big deal nowadays, so why not just like what you like and forget about what the world sees about you? Or the classic phrase: "Why don't you just be you?"
    >Why does it matter what you look like on the outside?
    It's very hard to go through life every day when you're covered in body hair that utterly disgusts you. It's something I don't like putting up with, and never have. I'm going to be glad to be rid of it.

    >Sexual preference isn't a big deal nowadays, so why not just like what you like and forget about what the world sees about you?

    Sexual preference and gender perception are two very different things that are treated very differently by society, unfortunately.

    >"Why don't you just be you?"
    By changing genders, that's exactly what I'll do. What I am now is not 'me'.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)14:40 No.262614

    ITT menhaters who don't provide a fucking sauce.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)14:56 No.262619

    >>262614
    ITT: people who never asked.

    Still, about the original purpose of the thread: just go with it, there's no point catagorizing yourself unless you're hard to one side (either gay or straight). If you find you fall for a woman, hope she likes vagoo and see what happens. If you fall for a guy, enjoy your penii.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)15:05 No.262623

    An anonymous speaking here, I say that being bi is superior. It is more important who the person is, and their relation to one's own self and the thoughts and the conceptions thereof. Unhealthy people are bad and we shouldn't like unhealthy people, but beyond health I do not think there should not be any evaluation based upon physical traits.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)16:10 No.262638

    >>262623
    Fuck yes, that was an awesome post.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)16:24 No.262643
     File :1198963446.jpg-(47 KB, 468x650, 335.jpg)
47 KB

    >>when you're covered in body hair that utterly disgusts you.
    I agree with ya one that one. Shaving it off works for me though.

    >Sexual preference and gender perception are two very different things
    I wish I understood why. I behave the way I want to, and I get along well with both guys *and* girls. it doesn't seem to matter what I am on the outside. I had hoped that with modern views the distinction between males and females would largely disappear (at least among friends) and that acceptance for being whatever you are, would become the norm.

    >What I am now is not 'me'.
    That further puzzles me. How will changing your body change who you are?

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)16:43 No.262658

    >>262594
    > Why do you have to sound so immature? I haven't heard things like this since I was a young teenager. Is the human body gross to you or something? It would be pretty weird to be offended by it.
    Uh, I wasn't intending to sound immature. I am not offended by vaginas, they're just gross and unappealing to me (same way with my masculinity comment). I hate touching my own vagina, much less anybody else's. The feeling, moisture, smell, how it looks -- it's all just ugly to me. I don't like it.

    Boobs are pretty great, though.

It's worth noting that a LOT of people have gay experiences when they're young and experimenting and end up being pretty fucking straight nonetheless.

>>     Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)17:10 No.262681
     File :1198966217.jpg-(131 KB, 478x680, 1186590268350.jpg)
131 KB

    >>Boobs are pretty great, though.
    Now there's something we can all agree on!

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)17:16 No.262686

    >>261581

    OMG! you're so right. But it's not just dreaming about her in a sexual, fantasy, sort of way. It's wanting her to be happy/ content no matter if she doesn't love you/ even like you back. It's wanting her to be happy/content no matter how much it hurts you. that's love. forget the lust.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)17:35 No.262699

    >>262643
    I'm not that anon, but, think about it.
    You have it easy, in your case your gender perception matches with your body.

    Of course you don't get someone who isn't that lucky. Imagine yourself, just that, now, from one second to another, you're in the body of a (small and weak) troll, complete with scales, slimy broken teeth, and all that. Wouldn't you be kinda surprised by that? Wouldn't it somehow make you want to change yourself back to your real you?

    Yeah? That's why. In your case, you always were your real you, and such a change would have been sudden(not to mention that it occurring is unlikely). Others are not. If you want to know more, read more about the psychological background of these issues. ;) Might be a bit complicated tho, but give it a try.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)23:14 No.262850

    >>262610
    Sorry, but it's very far fetched to claim that a big complicated course of action which involves removing functioning organs and all sorts of other harribly invasive procedures amounts to "just being yourself". You wouldn't even really be just changing your body to what your mind wants since the hormones would also cause big changes to your brain(or at least that's my understanding, IANAMD).

    >>262610
    Body hair? Oh come on, you seem to be just looking for something to make a big deal out of. Who actually likes their hair in it's natural state? Hardly any man sticks with the normal male hairy barbarian look(and those that actually want to have to deal with it giving a bad impression).

    >>262699
    HAH! Although that wasn't refering to me, it just as easily could have been and that opinion surely must would extend so, so it's hilariously ironic, at least in my case. I have a very effiminate face and a large torso, my body doesn't even match with itself!

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)23:25 No.262856

    >>262850
    I can't say I really understand transgender as I'm a girl who plays games and likes girls-- to me, it feels like they want to be put into a mold of "boys love girls" "boys play games" and want to be treated as such in society, but I do think that being treated as a gender does differ. If people tell me that they "feel" a gender I am less likely to treat them as that gender, and more likely to treat a person as that gender if they tell me "I wish to be treated as this gender." I do believe personality is something people carry and that has no basis from gender, however it may be influenced by treatment of gender.

    http://www.beginninglife.com/FFS.htm

    They look like girls now, right? But if they looked "tranny" I don't think people would treat them the same. Maybe sex wouldn't be the same for them, but at least they are being treated the gender they feel they are from most of society.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)23:29 No.262861

    >>262414
    I am. I think it's lovely. However, I used to love slash and yaoi because it was a way to explore men without getting completely disgusted at their hair and muscles, while meeting really kinky girls my own age to flirt with (and get ignored by :<). I like fellatio hentai, too, but while I liked giving head to my boyfriends in high school when I was experimenting, I didn't get anything out of it emotionally or sexually. It was pretty mechanical--I took pride in being good at it, but now, I'd probably burst into tears if I had to suck a cock. :/

    What you get off on in fantasy rarely has anything to do with your real sexuality--it's just amusing experimentation.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)23:33 No.262864

    >>262861
    > now, I'd probably burst into tears if I had to suck a cock
    We should meet up.

>>    Anonymous 12/29/07(Sat)23:35 No.262866

    >>262856
    I don't anyone has the right to judge someone's deepest thoughts and desires as long as they don't harm anyone else. I mean, it's THEIR mind, heart, soul, and body. So it's not for you? I hope you never feel the torment I've seen inflicted on my transwomen and transman friends, the utter strength they have to pursue what THEY believe will make them happiest, not due to stereotypes or societal pressures, but because it's impossible to live a certain way without playing to those feelings. If you are human, you are a victim of human culture. Transgendered people make some gay people feel really uncomfortable because it calls into question what gender and sex are, and how they affect the body and mind. If gender shouldn't ethically matter, why are gay people not interested in the opposite sex? They just AREN'T. Just like trans persons aren't happy with their natal sex.

    In the end, it's just about being happy, following one's True Will, and just using your one life you get the way you need to.

    That said, I'm a lesbian, and I've dated natal men, transmen, transwomen, and natal women. I prefer natal women vastly, but I have the capacity to love and give pleasure to anyone, at least on a fuck-buddy level. Really, I think sexuality is really fluid, as is gender. It's just what you like BEST that really defines you--I'm largely lesbian, but there are a few special souls out there that touch me regardless of their bodies.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:01 No.262874

    I question the whole "women in mens' bodies" thing, and I /do/ have to wonder if there might be a way for people like this to be happy with themselves that doesn't involve surgery. But I'm pretty much fine with people ricing up their bodies if it makes them pleased to do so. The caveat is that, if you're OK with this in the tranny case, you also have to be OK with the woman who had her lips surgically altered and tattood and implanted with studs so she looks like a cat.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:07 No.262878

    >It's just what you like BEST that really defines you
    I think that may be the simplest and clearest way to understand yourself/others.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:18 No.262882
     File :1198991898.jpg-(86 KB, 800x607, misc_yuri_0004.jpg)
86 KB

    >>262623
    >Really, I think sexuality is really fluid, as is gender.
    I guess I can see how someone in your situation might think this way. As a straight guy, it's a bit harder for me to view sexuality as a variable. There's simply no way I can even begin to conceive of being attracted to other guys. There's never been any spark... ever. One thing that irritates me slightly is when people say that ALL people are bi to some degree or another, or that guys like me are just in denial somehow... like if the right opportunity came along, etc.

    Yes, I certainly agree that there are many people who are 'sexually fluid', but there are an awful lot of us (well, I'm presuming - I can only speak for me I guess) for whom sexuality and gender are pretty binary. Claiming otherwise is just as narrow-minded as those who claim everyone's gender and preferences are binary as well.

    As to the OP's question? Well, illustrations are probably a perfect vessel for you, because you can fantasize in a safe and abstract fashion. Real girls bring with them their own sense of reality and all the baggage that goes with that. An illustration can represent sexuality in it's cleanest and most abstract form, allowing you to sexually experiment with another gender in a simplified, risk-free environment. Add to this the thrill of doing something a bit 'deviant', or outside the norm. The excitement of tasting forbidden fruit can also heighten a sexual experience, and it's clear how you could be drawn to yuri.

    Or maybe you just like hot anime wimmen.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:22 No.262886

    >>262874
    I don't believe in gender, period. People are not a gender, neither do people have a gender. Gender is an abstract combination of biological and social/cultural aspects that make up a trait. As such, it clearly is not immutable.

    >>262658
    I am a guy here, and I think that being bi is superior. I was always just straight, but I always thought that such a quality can be acquired. I don't know enough about biology, but I think that much of it is a suppression of disgust. After all, a natural response to physical contact with others of ANY kind is a feeling of disgust, and disgust is our protection against disease. I was straight at first, but I think that with some suppression of disgust, that I have been partially successful in turning my self bi.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:23 No.262887

    >>262866
    >following one's True Will

    That was the moment you lost all credibility. Random capitalization is a sure sign of serious mental instability.

>>     Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:25 No.262889

    The dyke is like the gremlin hunched and pale always up to no good cowering in the shadows looking for it's next mark to corrupt.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:27 No.262890

    >>262882
    I am the post of >>262623 here, and guess what, I am ALSO a straight guy, but thinking that I can turn myself bi somehow, and have been partially successful at that. I think that it can be self-induced by one's own thoughts. But until one is ready to actually think about it without shrinking away in terror, then it won't happen.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:28 No.262892

    >>262890
    You're gay.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:31 No.262895

    >>262886
    >People are not a gender, neither do people have a gender.

    Also, the Earth is flat.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:31 No.262896

    >>262892
    Somewhat inaccurate, but again, I think that sexuality can be self-induced.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:32 No.262897

    >>262895
    You have misunderstood what I was saying. Why don't you read more carefully before talking like a retard.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:33 No.262899

    >>262896
    You're gay.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:35 No.262905

    >>262899
    My gut reaction was at first to react negatively to this comment and throw all insults at this person I could find. I wonder why.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:36 No.262907

    >>262905
    That's a pretty gay comeback.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:38 No.262910

    >>262882
    Sorry, but you're just plain wrong. Gender is fluid, and so is sexuality. I don't care how strongly you believe you are male,-plain-and-simple,-period, there's men more masculine than you, some might even consider you to be quite inadequate as a man, and your sexual orientation undoubtedly has it's quirks and details that differentiate you from other straight men. You might have less tolerance for unfeminine women than most straight guys do, you might have more. You might have an abnormally strong distaste for men. you might react differently to very effeminate men than most straight guys. Etc.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:41 No.262911

    >>262897
    At least I don't type incredible amounts of bullshit.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:44 No.262913

    >After all, a natural response to physical contact with others of ANY kind is a feeling of disgust
    Uh, no, it's not, Monk. Most humans desire and enjoy physical contact with others. It's probably the reason many forms of greeting* involve a physical touch between the two parties (handshake, kiss, hug, etc). People touch each other all the time without disgust (or sexual connotation).

    * I'm not sure how bowing fits into this theory.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:45 No.262914

    >>262911
    If you need to have it spelled out for you since you are retarded, then here it is:

    Gender clearly is not something immutable or essential; rather it is an attribute constructed socially and biologically, and is clearly mutable and changeable. It is not an inherent property of any person, but a property that can readily be changed, if technology is available to take care of the biological component.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:48 No.262916

    >>262913
    Actually, it depends on how closely related you are to that person, and how healthy they appear to be. The less closely related, and the less healthy they appear to be, the more disgust it will elicit. Its evolutionary purpose is obviously for health protection reasons. This is just common sense. While it is true that "most humans desire and enjoy physical contact with others," this can only be when you can be sure that the other is not a stranger who is spreading a disease to you, and when the other is not unhealthy. And even so, people still prefer to main some distance from others, and don't like crowded areas for the same reason.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:50 No.262918

    >>262914
    Hey, believe what you like, believe you're a girl in a guy's body, just stop bullshitting about it on the internet. You only say "hurrr gender is fluid" so you can have a rationalisation for your beliefs and pretend you're "normal". But even if you aren't "normal", that's okay, really.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:51 No.262920

    >>262910
    Referring to the above post, I am a straight guy, and that's what all my friends believe. It doesn't matter if I like to talk about my feelings, or enjoy arranging flowers. The minute I look at another guy and think about sucking/playing with cock, then I'm no longer straight.

    In other words, gender is an idea that you make up about yourself or others. It doesn't actually define you in any way. My body is male, I like women only. Therefore I am a straight male.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:54 No.262921

    >>262920
    Er, by define, I meant define any limits for yourself.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)00:56 No.262923

    >>262910
    Perhaps you're using a confusing term. Fluid implies one's gender and sexuality can easily move up and down the entire spectrum, which I'd disagree with. Perhaps a better way of describing it is 'variable' (still not the best term, but I can't think of a better one), meaning the position and range of sexuality is unique for each person - I'd certainly agree to that (albeit with a highly weighted distribution curve).

    And for the record, I'm not repulsed or disgusted by men. I'm simply not sexually attracted by them. I don't wince when I'm in a shower with other guys at the gym, but I don't stare at their asses either.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:01 No.262926

    >>262916
    Fun fact: Spermophobia = fear of germs

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:03 No.262927

    I think that sexual preference is fairly biological, but with a strong social component -- that is, I think that maybe half (to bullshit a figure) of the people who consider themselves straight are naturally bi but socially straight, with the rest being both naturally and socially straight. As for what gender (in the sense of a sex-based social identity) we adopt, I do think that's 90% social, with most of the supposed differences between sexes actually being differences between genders.

    But that's just me.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:08 No.262929

    >>262923
    Use my preferred word. It is "mutable."

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:10 No.262932

    >>262920
    Umm you're talking about sexuality, gender is not really an "idea".

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:10 No.262933

    >>262920
    >The minute I look at another guy and think about sucking/playing with cock, then I'm no longer straight.

    You're wrong. Not only do you have to do all the described actions, but also have to WANT to do such a thing after getting over your initial disgust.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:20 No.262937

    >>262933
    Yeah, when I said "think about doing it" I meant like enjoying the thought of doing so. It's not disgusting to think of someone doing that to a guy. I'm a bit more grown up than that.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:23 No.262942

    >>262916
    No it's not common sense, germ paranoia is just a modern trend, bacteria aren't by-definition-bad for us. You should be nicer to the germs in your body and go eat some high fiber food to feed them.

    If it's a simple case of how closely related we are, then tell us, why do some people get so physical with dogs and the like, they're very distantly related to us, something like 30 million years.

    >>262920
    Now you're just being homophobic(in /u/, lol). What if you one time you just felt like doing something to some guy's dick, like maybe just to mess with him?

    What about if you need viagra one day? What if you loose interest in normal sex without certain fetishes? And how often are you capable of fucking? You're probably just scared of the idea that you might be less straight than some other men.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:26 No.262945

    >>262932
    You're right. Perhaps I worded that wrong. People nowadays seem to think that word has a hundred different meanings though.

    What makes sense to me, is to say I am a straight (sexual preference) male (physical body). How I act is irrelevant to both of those.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:28 No.262947

    >>262942
    >If it's a simple case of how closely related we are, then tell us, why do some people get so physical with dogs and the like, they're very distantly related to us, something like 30 million years.

    You must have mis-interpreted what I was saying. I was saying how "familiar" one is with a person, or how personally close one is to a person.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:29 No.262949

    >>262942
    I agree. I think that the idea is that it is mostly sociological. I bet most men would flinch at the idea of someone pointing to them and saying "you're gay."

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:32 No.262950

    >>262942
    >What if you one time you just felt like doing something to some guy's dick, like maybe just to mess with him?
    I don't see why I'd want to; it may be not much different than a finger or toe, but I know that myself, as well as others take that part of the body very seriously, so touching it would very much seem like a sexual thing to do. We can't escape that, as males.

    I don't see how the other questions were relevant.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:38 No.262955

    >>262933
    I wouldn't even go that far. I find some men attractive, have some interest in cocksucking, and consider myself straight.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:42 No.262958

    Anyone want to continue this discussion on the text boards? I can start a post there. This thread is gonna be dead soon.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:45 No.262961

    >>262950
    >I don't see how the other questions were relevant.
    They illustrate how sexuality is not neccessarily simple and "binary" as you specifically claimed, even if you are well into the straight zone. Same thing with the questions two replies previous that you've ignored.

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:45 No.262962

    >>262958
    Yeah, sure. Which one?

>>    Anonymous 12/30/07(Sun)01:48 No.262964

    How about here:

    http://dis.4chan.org/read/lounge/1198996283/1-40

I'd be rather interested to hear (from anyone here) how guys can consider themselves straight if they indeed like the idea of doing sexual things with other men.

I just think it's dishonest to call myself bisexual just because I'm not at Absolute Zero Kinsey. My attraction to men is much more conditional and idiosyncratic than my attraction to women, and even the men that make my dick move (as opposed to just appealing to me on an aesthetic level), I don't usually fap to. No matter what I call myself, it's going to give people the wrong idea, but I think it's more misleading to say I'm bi than to say I'm straight.

>>10
I think that makes sense. Having just a small interest seems reasonable enough. If we can be full on gay, why not just a little?

Perhaps an explanation of that is hormones. If a guy takes estrogen, does he have any increased attraction to men? I've heard of it, but if it's really true it could explain how the level of one thing being slightly different can determine the physical reason for being that way.

But like you said, and we're probably all well aware that attraction is based on much more than physical stuff. You can become completely enveloped in a fetish that you never had before, or grow to like older women as time goes on. There are so many reasons to "like" something.

>>11
I'm pretty sure that taking estrogen doesn't make you more into men. However, that could be because the brain is already developed -- to really be sure you'd need to have people with heightened levels of estrogen from before birth until at least puberty, which is one of those experiments we can't do because of ethics boards.

>>12
It's good to know even that much. The more I can scientifically define how things work, the more I can be clear what is my choice and what isn't. Then I can get back to living my life and not be like many younger folk who seem to worry about being this or that. I can just do what I like and that's that.

That's the reason this discussion interests me. I'd like for it to be easier for teenagers and such to make up their minds and get on  with their lives, or be (somewhat more) free of being pre-judged as one thing or another.

>>13
You seem to be giving it an awful lot of worry! Most people just go with what seems most natural to them, unless they face severe censure for doing so.

>>14
I'm trying to figure out a way to explain it clearly to people who have trouble with it. And I'd like to some scientific or social background to help them believe what I say.

Everyone's so confused about it these issues nowadays, so reading and talking about it can help me to help them, essentially. Besides that, it's interesting, and makes me curious why people have such a hard time with it when it seems rather simple to me.

Gosh, my typing is getting poor. I better get to sleep.

It's been an interesting read. Have fun everyone.

what the fuck

I couldn't believe it, I ordered this video, it took 6 weeks to arrive, but I was in the middle of "enjoying" it, when suddenly, my father, sister, and I were on screen. What the hell is up with that. I am still in therapy for that. The worst part is that we didn't even realize what was goiing on, they just got us liquored up and naked. This is just plain wrong.

>>1-262964

SAME FAG

Sorry to derail this conversation but you know what I can't stand? Internet fame

Fat attention seeking whores on YouTube who think they're important. I don't know who you are and neither do starving children in Honduras nor will we ever. That's all that matters.

>>20
People who seek internet fame can get internet fame. They aren't winning very much in the end, but they don't care. They get attention and that's all they want.

Wow, there are a lot of totally random posts on the discussion board.
>>15
The problem is that there isn't a lot of evidence either way as regards the nature/nurture debate. Most of the evidence suggests, at best, that we should keep our minds open. It's something that it's safe to be agnostic about right now.