Japanese - Ask questions thread

Basically if you have a question about the language, ask it and fellow 4channers might see it and answer it for you.

To start it off. When an animate object (iru) dies, is it considered inanimate(aru)?

>It might even debunk jim breen's WWWJDIC
I'm pretty sure that uses the wwwjdic database... no idea what reading it priviledges for the romaji

>>840
>How badly do you think I will fail?
very badly haha, but only because your goal is so high

you might want to look into learning how to write the radicals first (the radicals are often common kanji anyways), or does heisig's method cover that?

けんせつこうじにかかるしざいのさいしげんかなどうにかんするほうりつ!

>>841
I already pretty much know all the radicals anyways, but yes, it seems like heisig's method does radicals well. It introduces you to kanji with similar radicals and slightly moves you into new kanji with new radicals.

e.g. 21st kanji you learn is 唱, 22 晶, 23 品, 24 呂 (although this kanji isn't jouyou, but it's used in 風呂 so everyone should know it)

The only bad part about it is you don't learn how to read the kanjis in Japanese, but I imagine once you recognize them and know what they mean, then it'll be quick to learn. I'm actually using Anki instead of that website though, but I'm grabbing stories on the site, and I'm adding popular readings to all the kanji as I come across them so once I'm done with English, I can start learning pronunciation. I suppose though I can use the site for a review as I will already have Anki updated on the stuff anyways, so maybe every few days I might update my account (tells what kanji I'm on) http://kanji.koohii.com/showprofile.php?user=raseru

Whatever, I know it's unrealistic, but aim for the Sun, and hit the Moon, right?

>843
唱, 22 晶, 23 品, 24 呂
Those aren't the radicals, but I see what Heisig is getting at.
I didn't continue using his method because it didn't show the readings at the same time and that frustrated me. Good luck if learning them at different times works for you. Personally I just use Anki with regular flashcards (meaning/reading/character) for the kanji at the moment.

>Whatever, I know it's unrealistic, but aim for the Sun, and hit the Moon, right?
Indeed. Try to grab a couple of runes while you're up there.

>>844
Yeah I didn't mean they were radicals, just that Heisig introduces you to similar radicals in kanji along the way.

I also found the Heisig method frustrating because it wouldn't tell me the readings too, so I ignored it, but now that I tried it, I actually like it. Not to mention, I'm adding readings to my Anki deck for when I do finish. Sure I'm not going to be fluent in all 2000 perfectly once I learn them, but being able to write all of them and knowing their meaning I'm sure it will help tons, especially when learning their Japanese meanings. If I keep this up though, I'm pretty sure I can get all of them done in a month (realistically), but I don't know how school will interfere with my studies. I'm at like 115 now, and hope to hit 200 before I go to bed

thing is with radicals, is that if you only just learn them in tiniest forms, they're a pain. Heisig doesn't limit to it like that

eg 願 has the cliff radical, then the meadow radical combo, then the paper/head radical combo. things like 頁 show up all the fucking time, if you only know them in the smallest form, putting the kanji together would be a fucking puzzle.

eg 願 has the cliff radical, then the meadow radical combo, then the paper/head radical combo. things like 頁 show up all the
fucking time, if you only know them in the smallest form, putting the kanji together would be a fucking puzzle.

I agree with what you're saying (that only knowing the 241 radicals falls short of covering all the common combinations), but I feel compelled to correct your example.

原 is a combination of multiple radicals, however 頁 is a  single radical
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%A0%81%E9%83%A8

Isn't it a real bitch to learn 名乗り? The name's kana used for the kanji?

Like you got to fucking learn on-yomi, kun-yomi, and fucking nanori? Gah give me a break, this language couldn't be bigger pain..

>>848I don't understand what you mean by that.
Could you give me some examples?

>>849
Kanji has many different readings
On-yomi = Readings from Chinese, these usually are for compound kanji 食事
Kun-yomi = Readings Japanese made up, these are usually kanji by themselves, and anytime there's hiragana attached to a kanji, it's kun-yomi 食べる
Nanori = Kanji from Japanese name, sometimes they have Kun-yomi readings, sometimes they don't.

When the radicals are all stacked on top of each other, how the fuck do they fit it on one line? Do they have like way bigger lined paper than us? Or do they have 0.1 led?

>>850 I still don't understand. You mean these?
光="kou" for On, "hikari" for Kun, and "pika" (as in 光宙=pikachuu)?
If so, you'd better not care about crazy nanori stuff.

>>851　無問題了。例：立＋日＋心＝意

>>852
right
when I saw 光宙, I admittedly laughed, heh.

Sure pikachu is useless, but other people's names comes up all the time though..

>>851
With some practice you can fit everything in
For example when I started '電' seemed impossible but now it's fine. Ah typically what happens is I write the kanji and make the kana bigger accordingly.
also there's vertical paper for writing texts so you don't really have to worry about the height too much.

>>854
how about 海月? The moon reflecting in the sea?! How poetic, I'll name all my children like that!

>>855
haha 花子
flower child
.. i just made the connection then

>>856
Hanako is a real name, however kurage or however you want to read it is a name given by uninformed parents to their children. 海月 means jellyfish. It's round and floats at the surface of the water like the moon, see?

I'm really confused on the difference between the direct objectを and the subjectが

eg nihongo no hon ____ mitsukarimasen.
The answer is が but why can't it be を? the book is the object that can not be found, right?

Maybe the problem lies in my vague understanding of what the grammar of subject/direct obj mean in English.. I look up the definitions of both but it doesn't seem to help me in many cases

I guess here's another example
この漢字の読み方（　　）わかりますか
I'm pretty sure the answer is が, I just don't know why. I'm hopeless with grammar...

>>858
I feel "mitsukaru" is like "to be found" in English and "to find" is "mitsukeru."
So, if the question is "nihongo no hon __ mitsukeraremasen," then the answer is が. These examples may help you understand:

I found the book. 本を見つけた。
The book was found. 本が見つかった。

>この漢字の読み方（　　）わかりますか
>I'm pretty sure the answer is が, I just don't know why. I'm hopeless with grammar...

I don't think it is very important since you already know "わかる" always follows "object+が/は" (or you can drop が/は in spoken language). Linguists may explain why you can't use を in this case. But it's like grammar jargon can explain why you say "I know how to read this kanji" but don't say "I'm knowing how..." I was frustrated with this kind of English grammar and felt hopeless just like you do, but, after a few months of learning, somehow "knowing" started to sound strange though I don't know the underlying grammar.

>>858
Do you have a Japanese grammar book? (I know, I know, it's funny considering your first example) it should explain this stuff

日本語の本が見つからない
the verb here is the 'non-grammatical' passive

you can put verbs in the passive form by　adding -られる to the stem of 一段 verbs or -れる to the negative form of 五段 verbs. for example there's (I'm going to copy stuff from the dictionary):
見つける    (v1,vt) to discover; to find
its grammatical passive:
見つけられる　(potential or passive)

but it's also paired up with a 'lexical passive'
見つかる　　　(v5r,vi,uk) to be found; to be discovered

Knowing this it becomes clearer why the book is the subject (が)
in your example. It's "the book can't be found" instead of "I can't find the book". Note that it says 'vi' (intransitive verb) next to the dictionary entry. There are many such intransitive-transitive verb pairs.
http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/ts/japanese/message/jpnEUwEoW7XEUhMPq0e.html

The end result is that there are too many possible ways to say 'I can't find this stupid book!!' so certain forms have become  privileged. I don't know how that happens sorry; ease of use, ancient grammar...? The passive form has also other uses like implying a negative result:
雨が降ってきた "It started to rain."
(私が)雨に降ってこられた "It started to rain" (implication that you got wet)

differentiate 分ける(vt)/to be differentiated (to understand) 分かる(vi)
is a little trickier but it's similar to the first example
wakeru -> do you differentiate between this kanji's readings and other readings?
wakaru -> is this kanji's reading differentiated (understood) (from that of other kanji)?

does seeing it this way help?

There's also using the particles to mark the agent/patient that'll you want to know but it's all in grammar books
they're boring but useful...

>>859
>>860
Thanks a lot for the help. I'm starting to recall things I've went over before and kind of trying to make sense out of it now.

Basically, vi=が, and vt=を or が, which can vastly change the meaning

Thinking about it though, 分かる as a vi does seem really weird though. I've been told intransitive has no human intervention, but I don't see how something could be understood without a human, I guess it's best to think of it as without an object only.

thanks, I think I'm starting to grasp it better now

If you see a question without any context, like 何できた？

How would you know if it is なにで or なんで since they both imply two completely different meanings..

nande is much much more common
I can't think of an example with the other case.

>>862
Without context, you can't tell which was intended.

On a side note, なんできた？ is, in most cases, asking the reason why you come. But sometimes it may be the same as なにできた？, which is asking the means you took to come. This might be the reason why >>863 thinks なんで is much more common.

I get the feeling that Japanese is a very ambiguous language.

Like Russian, it tends to omit a lot of words, yet in Russian the meaning is nearly always clear, either because of declension and inflection, or because of short affixes.
In Japanese, however, so much is implied and/or ambiguous that I can't really imagine someone learning it being able to converse in it by just knowing the grammatical rules and vocabulary. One'd need to live in Japan and speak with Japanese people regularly for years to even have hopes of mastering the language. At least that's how it seems to me.

It seems very culturally defined, in a way. Perhaps a bit too much so?

>>865
Are you saying this after trying to learn the language or by looking at its characteristics? I don't think it's ambiguous...

YOU ARE HIDING BEHIND THOSE SMILES WHILE INTENTIONALLY KEEPING THINGS AMBIGUOUS

Japanese is an ambiguous language. With a limited number of sounds (except loan words), and with many similar sounding words that might change the meaning entirely, I think it's safe to say it is an ambiguous language. It's just not a matter of omitting words that makes it such.

>>865
>>868
Japanese is ambiguous? Ive had no real trouble with ambiguity in Japanese. Korean however...

>>869
Japanese is incredibly ambiguous. Even people fluent in the language get confused a lot of the time because the subject is often left out, not to mention every other sentence you say is a pun.

>>870
i really have never found that. Is it more an older generation thing?

Japs usually put the subjected being discussed at the start of a paragraph and don't repeat it every sentence, so i can see where some people MAY get confused.

>>871
Right but what if you joined a conversation half way in? You'd be lost.

>>869
Seconded
Korean is the gay when it comes to ambiguous words

eg ch/joa: good, nice, high, fine, fun, plus...and many more

>>872
well, like in English, i guess you would ask what they are talking about.

>>874
In english we often repeat pronouns.

>>875
yeah but using "he/she" could be talking about anyone.

It's not the language but Japan's culture that makes things ambiguous. You can form logically rigorous sentences without grammatical errors if you want. But they just don't fit in with its culture. I mean, even if you already learned grammar, vocabulary, and their usages of one language, you're not a master of the target language yet. What really matters is the way people think and speak when it comes to "natural" phrasing.

katsu-age

What's the difference between 子猫 and 仔猫?

>>879
one of them is gay