Why does everyone shit on Final Fantasy?

I like the series because it always has phenomenal production values, and Square is actively dedicated to reinventing it each time with new worlds, new characters, new themes and new battle/leveling systems. In comparison, most other contemporary JRPGs have been content with recycling the same formulas used since the mid-90s (notable exceptions: Shadow Hearts, Xenosaga, MegaTen, maybe Valkyrie Profile).

FFXII is like a wet dream to me, because I _loved_ Vagrant Story and am very much looking forward to seeing how YAZZ et al have handled it.

My opinion is that this is just another case of "it sucks if it's popular" syndrome. If the best argument you have is "It's always about whiny, effeminate teenagers trying to save the world" then don't even bother replying.

Because you're really an individual when you hate what everyone else likes, no matter if it's actually good or not.

>>1
Because Final Fantasy 4 shits all over the newer Final Fantasies.

Because the final fantasy series (Much like Sabin and Edgars father) TOOK A TURN FOR THE WORST.

Ever since ff7, their entire selling point has been expensive visuals. This doesn't initially make the game bad. But what it does is... This attracts the kind of attention from people who just want something that looks expensive. Why else would they be attracted to it?

This at the time, brought on mass market appeal. From people who previously wouldn't give a game a second look unless it had expensive visuals.

Seeing something so successful, this floods the market full of shitty games to appease such a shitty demographic. Everyone trying to be the "next" ff7.

At first it just felt like a trend waiting to die down, pick itself up, dust itself off and get back to business. But it's still doing the same shit, and now it's just sad.

>>4
>this floods the market full of shitty games to appease such a shitty demographic. Everyone trying to be the "next" ff7.

You mean RPGs that try to match Final Fantasy in production values are bad by default?

How often do you hear the term "Final Fantasy killer" thrown around? You don't, because you can't pin the games down to any particular aspect(s) without generalizing JPRGs in general (limited interactivity for the sake of fixed narratives and personality development).

FF7's success happened because the combination of large-scale CGI backgrounds, cinematic CGI cutscenes and dynamic battle camera introduced an unprecedented form of immersion that more people could appreciate compared to pixellated, low-color SD sprites in pixellated, low-color environments with a fixed top-down perspective and static battle camera.

It puzzles me why people complain about such progress as if it were a bad thing.

Part of it is that on the net, it popular to hate what's popular. Some elitists will always hate the mainstream and love the underground. The other part is because they don't put as much emphasis on the story and characters as most Final Fantasy fans do and they don't like the menu-driven battle systems.

But the biggest part is because going from 6 to 7 was a HUGE letdown in terms of actual RPG quality, just like going from 4 to 5.

Well actually I take that back, being able to switch classes on the fly was pretty damn fun.

I'll admit Final Fantasy has been on a bit of a decline since FF7. I think all the FF7 haters out there are the people who seen the commercials, heard about the awesome graphics, music and plot, and decided to buy it based on that, knowing nothing else of the game.

Then they took it home and were like, "What the shit is this?! There's so much READING! And the battle system is completely menu driven!? WTF! This is SO BORING! Why can't I just run up and slash the monster? THIS GAME SUX!"

The above scenario is pretty much what a friend of mine said after he bought FF7. I'm sure he's not the only person who's reaction to the game was like this.

But the fact of the matter is that the game was sold. Square had the sales and decided that this is what everyone wanted. So they pumped out another game. And another... The story goes on.

FF8 .. I liked it and it had good production value. That game would have been an absolute gem if they fixed the draw/junction system and fleshed out Ultimecia a bit. In every other regard, it was a solid game, if you asked me. But the junction system was so broken that a lot of people don't make it to the end of the first disc. The plot is also really boring up to that point but from then on, it's all pretty good, barring Squalls faggotry which he eventually turns around.

FF9 .. I have no idea what was wrong with it. I only beat it because I forced myself to. The only real problem I can think of is that I hated the character designs and the final boss pops up out of litterally nowhere.

>>7

There's no such thing as hating cause it's popular. People just hate being over exposed to something and others (you), misinterpret it as "hating cause it's popular".

>>10
What's the difference between hating it because its over exposed and hating it because its popular?

>>7

I think you've hit it on the head there.

>>1
Because it hasn't evolved for ages. Only world, story and characters change, but game stays pretty much same. That's why people hate it.

>>13
Not really. Job systems? Materia? Espers? Spheres? The grid? It keeps the traditional RPG style, but parts of the gameplay do evolve. And FFXII is going to be a real jump in the gameplay. Have you played the demo? Nothing like the single player Final Fantasies before it.

But a lot like the multiplayer game before it.

I only shit on the newer stuff.

Although XII does intrigue me.

I have a hard time believing Famitsu magazine would give FFXII a full score if it wasn't something special. Despite what feelings people get about the demo disc and the similar gameplay style to FFXI, I think the finished product will be something to look forward to.

I tend not to like FF after VII because it just became one cliche after the other.  Like there was this list of every JRPG cliche you could think of, and every FF after VII tends to follow it to a tee.

In addition, while the FF series is *good at telling a story*, visuals aside, the games themselves are bland; it's role-playing in the thinnest sense of the word, and even then, you're not really playing a *role* in the strictest sense of the word, simply controlling the parts in a story without truly being a part of it.

I consider FF after VII to be something I call a McRPG: everyone who plays the game will end up playing the same damned game with little to no variation in the storyline at all.  Once you start, everyone takes the same road to the end.

>>17

I hear that the finished product shits all over the demo. I'll have to see..!!

JRPGs are all fucking crap. Incredibly retarded stories and characters, complete linearity, retarded dialogue, retarded items, retarded interface, and so on.

Go play BG2 or morrowind to see what a REAL RPG is.

>>20
I happen to be a big fan of both... As funny as Minsc is, as badass as Incerus is, and as cute as Mission is... few western RPGs can even compare to the better Japanese RPGs in terms of the setting, the depth of the stories, and the likability of the characters. Minsc isn't as funny as Cliff, Incerus isn't as badass as Auron, and Mission isn't as cute as Rikku.

>>20
Go play Planescape Torment, Fallout or Arcanum to see what a REAL RPG. JRPGs have their good points too. They fail at writing and dialog, but they sometimes have good designs and ideas. I'd love to see RPG designed by japs, but written and made by western RPG gods like Tim Cain.

>>19-22
you all fail gameplay

learn yourselves some quintet

"Irenicus isn't as badass as Auron."

WOW.  I did not just read that.

>>11

Hating something because it's popular means hating it because a lot of other people like it.  Hating something because it's overexposed means hating it because you're sick and tired of hearing about it.

>>25
People talk about things they like. If its popular, you're going to hear about it.

JRPGs are like tetris without the randomness and with some levelling thrown in to make 10 year olds think they're playing a RPG.

"Ooh, an airship! Japan's RPG design is superior!" you stupid dimwits. A bunch of sub-saharan niggers could design a better RPG than the japanese.

>>27
They actually have good graphical designs and ideas. They fail at writing(ie. story and dialog) and at fact that many don't allow player to make any real choices that will affect story like good RPGs should.

>>28
JRPG ideas are usually taken from myths and books. The final outcome might in some small ways be nice, but it is very far from originality. They basically sell you back the ideas of western writers and ancient greek mythos in a much shitter and dumber format.

Good thing otakus don't read books (other than manga and murakami*) or they might become disenchanted.

>>29
True, but that's what they do commonly on western games too. Although Japanese seem to have big fascination using them outside their context. Biggest problems with JRPGs is shitty dialog and not very well fleshed out stories(main cause being shitty dialog).

>>29
* I am a fat nerd.

>>28
Because graphics matter in games. AMIRITE AMIRITE

Yes, and western RPGs don't do that.
Asshole.

>>33
Any sane man should admit that Fallout series, Planescape Torment or even KOTOR(even console player can enjoy) series are superior to Final Fantasy. Not to mention FPS/RPG mixing games like Deus Ex and System Shock series. Now then there are things like NWN(arguably 3rd expansion was somewhat OK though) which actually royally suck balls and lose compared to just about anything.

>>34
You are familiar with the concept of opinions, right? One person may think one thing that is no more right or wrong than what you think, because the value of these things are subjective?
KOTOR, Fallout, Planescape torment, Deus Ex, and System Shock aren't as good as Final Fantasy in my mind.

>>35
Your opinion is wrong.

>>36
And you didn't even bother to explain reasons for your opnion. Anyway I think >>35 , opnion is bit odd, but he seems to be reasonable guy. I'd like to know reasons why he likes Final Fantasy so much.

>>37
Why should I have to explain my reasons when I didn't even read past the first sentence of >>35, huh?

>>37
I would not like him to explain why he is retard, thanks.

>>39
You're very well-spoken for a retard.

>>40
A's are too good for me to post in this shit thread.
Deal with it.

I'm a JRPG fan myself. I like having the direction that comes with playing through one. I've found all too often with your so-called REAL RPGs (Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout are the only ones I have experience with) that I just don't know what to do next.

There is also a type of storytelling that can only be done by linear games.

There is one truth though. jRPGs aren't REAL RPGS. The only RPGish aspect of them is the combat and growth systems. Other than those aspects, they aren't any more an RPG than say Ninja Gaiden.