--- MMO ideas ---

Post your ideas for what you'd like to see in an MMO.  Keep in mind if current technology can handle it, or if it'll take several years.

Right now I'd like to see a game that really IS D&D.  Not just the combat of D&D, but the actual pen and paper gameplay translated into a game.  I know D&D online is coming out, but I have a feeling it won't break the barriers for true roleplaying.  I'd like something more like Quest for Glory, where everything can be interacted with based on skill (climb wall and walk rope for thieves, bash door or lift rock for fighters, crazy magic manipulation for mages, etc).  Also, the social aspect of NPCs and reputation/alignment/attitude like in Arcanum.  And multiple solutions to different obstacles based on character type (lockpick door, blow up door, climb roof and slide down chimney, phase through with spell, convince owner to open door, hire rogue to open door, shapeshift to a fly to slip underneath, etc.) 

Ultima Online allowed this sense of interaction and creativity simply due to the bugginess of the game (standing on a chest to walk through the corner of a wall, using a bag of flour to stop a dragon)   .  I'd like to see interaction and adaptability of the environment, but used intentionall and done well.  Also, GMs and employees who are paid to play as characters involved in realtime plot, who can be killed permanently.

I'd like to see one with a fun battle system. Like a beat-em-up game or simalar.
And with an actual story.

>>1
Play a good MUSH/MUD.

I know that answer sounds trite, but the level of interaction you appear to be seeking is simply beyond current graphical MMOs. It's a lot simpler to say "I run through the door with a dogsled" than having a GM who's some godly programmer able to script an answer to that on the fly. And which game is going to have dogsleds lying around anyway? And how will the physics work? And so on.

MU* have their own limitations, but are far better suited for human communication, which is what a D&D session largely is.

An MMO without a boring battle system. PSO has had the best so far, but its not really an MMO. If they could get servers awesome enough to make one with a battle system like Devil May Cry's or something like that, it would be the best MMORPG ever. And an online Ikaruga :<

I believe Neverwinter Nights is what are you looking for. It doesn't have unlimited interactions but its close and there are multiplayer massive servers out there.

Nethack.

I would like someone to try something similar to Maplestory (as in 2D action MMO) with the battle system of Ragnarok Battle Offline or Duel Savior

>>1,3
The reason Ultima Online is so fondly and nostalgically looked back on is because it was, and still is, the closest thing to a good MUD that MMORPGs have ever had.

A text-based interface is inherently more open to interactivity with the world and other characters because it doesn't have to deal with the overhead of graphics. Want to dig a mine? Easy. Let the player spawn generic adjacent rooms. 3D requires models and textures in the client to define the different combinations of walls and exits. Decorate your home or castle? Rewrite the room descriptions to your heart's content. Graphical clients limit you to the available stock items and colors. Hell, even the basic emote command provides a hell of a lot more expressive outlet than any set of pre-recorded animations ever will.
Many roleplay focused MUDs even have staff dedicated to moving plots forward and hosting unique quests, interacting with players as pseudo NPCs(and for free! imagine that!).
Modern MMORPGs are little more than glammed-up hack'n'slash Diku MUDs. That is why they're so mind-numbing after the initial level-up micro endorphin rushes get farther apart.

>>2
Have you tried City of Heroes?  The battle system isn't exactly beat-em-up, but it's closer than most games, and very actiony.  The battle system HAS to be good, since it's really all there is.  Maybe once more is added it will have some more life to it, and I'll start playing it again.

>>4
Actually, CoH reminded me a lot of PSO.  For example, quests are pretty much all instanced, and this ends up feeling very much like PSO with a larger & more in depth lobby :D

Free mmo RPG game.
http://rob2.jp/
http://rob2.jp/mmo/arc/mmo000400.zip
This is wonderful because it is individual production.

Any other reccomendations for MMO games similar to PSO?

Or... Why not a multiplayer Castlevania?

>>3 >>8

Amen. For pure and real roleplaying goodness you quite simply can't beat a text interface.

Though I really think that with enough time and effort put in a simple 16bit graphics mmorpg could be almost as good as a mu*
It's just easier to create a bunch of sprites and tile sets and the like for the player to do what they wish with than it is to model hundreds of items.

Most graphical MMORPGs seem to actively discourage role playing. Besides the obvious fact that the gameworlds are inhabited by idiots who only seem to know how to type "wut lvl r u?", "heal plz", and "lololol", the clients just don't provide many services useful for RP.

Take a look at any MU*, and then look at the limitations all the MMORPG impose, like short msg limits, a rather poor text interface, lack of OOC commentary, etc.

lack of OOC commentary?  what MMOs are you playing
and text limits... the problem isn't so much text limits, but small chat windows - the poor text interface you speak of

>>15
When I say OOC commentary, I mean a clear distinction between in-game persona and commentary between the players. I'm not aware of any MMORPG including something like an OOC command, which most MU* have, and which are used extensively.

The problem of limited chat windows is compounded by the need to switch from a mouse-driven interface when controlling a character to the keyboard when you want to say anything. It increases the increases the psychological barrier to immersion, further discouraging roleplay.

Voice chat wouldn't be much help, because what are you going to think when a hulking troll(or worse, a female elf) speaks like a squeaky-voiced teen whose every second word is "like"?

I could really go for an MMO that's not just grinding, grinding, grinding and/or fedex quests.  World of Warcraft is getting old by now, I feel like I've already done everything in the game and I'm not even 30th level.

>>18
Guild Wars. It really is that good.

Of course PvE stops at level 20, everything after is PvP. So if you don't like PvP it might not be for you.

I really wish they'd fix the character models though. They're ugly.

I've actually be designing an MMORPG for a while.  "Designing" as in "thinking about it" and less so "actually making the game," because I'm stupid.

How about a combo-based battle system?  Not where Fire + Sword equals "Flaming Slicer" or something, but where Fire + sword makes you attack with the fire element.

A friend and I were thinking the same thing, as well.  Of course, after a while we couldnt find a good way to implement the combo system, so we skipped it. Now we are currently thinking of ways to implement an action-based battle system.

>>16
You're not aware of Everquest?  I mean, it's not even SIMILAR to ooc... it has a */ooc* command.  I'm pretty sure most of the other big ones have ooc channels too.

>>17
For most of the interwebgeeks that play MMOs, switching from mouse to keyboard isn't a disruption at all.  It's not like you have to get up and walk over to your mouse station... you just jump your right hand over from the mouse to work the right side of the keyboard.

What's wrong with a troll having a normal human voice?  I thought you MUD people were the ones telling the MMO guys that THEY don't have any imagination.  Ever hear of D&D?  And what are you trying to imply with your vocabulary comment?  That roleplaying can only be achieved through a typed interface, and not in a spoken medium?  Why don't you tell that to all the thousands of pen & paper players... if you're saying that MU*>MMO, it seems that all the reasons you state should make you want to just give up on the MU*s and just go all the way into P&P.

>>21
My idea was that, to organize a combo, you would a set a move to "lobby".  Then characters would have the option of using all the moves being lobbied in combination with their attack.

Unused moves would just get casted right before the lobbyer's next turn.

>>22
I don't mean it as a hard barrier, making any rp impossible, only more difficult or cumbersome when combined with the limited chat windows. It's the separation of input methods.

Nothing wrong with a human voiced troll, if his imagination is playing in the same fantasy world as you. There's a big difference between tabletop with a group of friends and a massively multiplayer game. At a table you can pick and choose who you roll dice with, and in general you're all going to be in the same headspace. In an MMO, all the paper NPCs are suddenly walking talking automatons who may play along with the world or speak in IRC shortcuts and hip hop slang(not that this means everyone has to talk in Olde English). Unless it's a lighthearted game, the latter is going to disrupt suspension of disbelief to some extent.
P&P is nice if you can get a group together. MUDs can offer more flexibility in scheduling if it becomes difficult.

>if you're saying that MU*>MMO
I'm saying that MU*s are more conductive to roleplay than graphic MMOs, regardless of fun factor in the game mechanics. Yes, P&P can be said to be superior to both, but I find MU*s strike a nice balance. Everything is still described in words, leaving imagination to do the rendering and you have more options when looking for people to play with.

>>22, re ooc:
Good to know at least one MMORPG has it. Do people use it?

>>24
OK, I'm starting to understand you better, and you're making sense now ^_^
Anyway, I think I don't know enough about MU* - how multiplayer are they?  I thought they were as massively multiplayer as MMOs - are they more like diablo or counterstrike or whatever, where you just join up with a few people in your own world, divided off from the rest?  If not, I don't see how this solves the problem of finding people who want to roleplay properly - I guess it's just the kind of people who play MU*s, heh.

Anyway, most big MMOs have either unofficial or official role player servers, and those who want to role play can go there and hopefully find more people with similar goals.

Also, you can choose who you play with in the same way as a P&P - a lot of new games have been moving more into instancing, where you go into, say, a certian dungeon with just whoever you are with, and when you enter, it creates a new copy of it that just you occupy and no one else can enter.  If you want to roleplay in a common area like a town, you might have problems... but most MMOs have a good enough chat engine that you could ignore public chatter/ooc stuff and only here what your group is saying, solving that problem.

>>25
Well... read what I said about the roleplaying servers.  I haven't ever actually gone on one of them, so I don't know how well it works.  If I want to role play, I usually just P&P - I should probably check out MU*s eventually.

8/6/1914
Dear diary,

    I hate saying "dear diary." It makes me feel like a woman. Women have diaries, men have journals. That's how it goes. I can't very well say "dear journal" though, can I? It just sounds off.

All everyone talks about lately is the war. It's funny - ever since we entered it two days ago, it's gone from feeling like far-off skirmish to something practically next door. I suppose it doesn't concern us directly, but, god-dammit, those krauts have gone one step too far this time. If they feel they can invade innocent countries like Belgium, what's to stop us from being next? Or so me and the boys say. We've decided to enlist. So has everyone else we know, it seems. Even little Timmy Driver from primary school showed up to do his duty. Poor chap. I wonder if they even have uniforms small enough for him.

Jokes aside though, I'm really looking forward to the war. I've heard training is supposed to be tough, but it's only a few weeks, and nothing that we can't handle. After that, it's honor, brotherhood, regular wages - and, most of all - French women. I've promised Johnny that I'll bring one of kraut's helmets home for him. He's only seven, and even he wants to enlist!

Last night was the first night in a long time that dad didn't come home drunk. He walked in the door at about 7, with only faint traces of whisky on his breath. Instead of scowling at Johnny and hitting mom, he spent the evening reading the paper and smiling. He told me how proud he was of me, and how he wished he was still young enough to join up. I told him that it was just as important for him to do his part at home, and he nodded and seemed to understand. He mumbled something about "trying to do better." I think that's a good sign. Maybe he'll give up his drinking for good now. I doubt it, though. He'll stop for a few days, swear up and down that he's "done for good," and then come Friday night, he'll be down at the pub with the rest of the gang from work for "just one drink." Damn it.

 Julia wasn't too happy that I would be spending our first anniversary in basic training, but she understands that we all have to make sacrifices in an undertaking as great as this. She's talked about enlisting as a nurse, but I'm doing my best to talk her out of it. War is far too dangerous for women, and especially a woman as beautiful as she is. I'm so lucky to have her in my life. I could never forgive myself if something was to happen to her.

It's nearly midnight, and tomorrow's an early morning. Julia and her family are taking us to the countryside for a picnic. It should be a wonderful day. I don't think I'll have a chance to write for a while, so, diary, it looks like this is goodbye. See you in the war!

God, I feel like such a bloody idiot for writing to a book.
4/20/1915

Jesus christ. The past month has been hell. I'm so scared, but I can't let anyone know. Maybe writing all this down will help me. Maybe not. I'm ready to try anything at this point.

I'm in Turkey, on the peninsula of Gallipoli, dug in with the rest of the Lancashire Fusiliers. In the early morning of the 25th, we boarded 32 cutters and bounded through the choppy sea. There was hardly time to breathe on them; every time the boat hit a swell, you fell all over your neighbors. Men were puking all over the deck, and one man's gun went off accidentally, killing his best friend. The Turks held their fire until we were almost on the beach. They had barbed wire, they had land mines, they had a machine gun - and the only way off the beach was through this skinny deathtrap of a gully.

Once they opened fire, it was a slaughter. We were packed into those boats like fish in barrel. A single shot could go through two or three men before finally getting stopped by enough flesh. We panicked, and started jumping overboard. I followed my friend James over the edge.

Hitting the water has to have been one of the biggest shocks of my life. It was cold, so cold - colder than anything I've ever felt, colder than I thought possible. The iciness reached into my very heart. It felt like death, I realized. And as I realized that, I realized that I was drowning. I was only in around six feet of water, but it felt like more. Men were everywhere. I grabbed someone's leg and kicked to surface, kicked with all strength I had left, kicked like I had never kicked before, because I knew that if I didn't, I was going to die.

The water was filled with swirls of crimson almost as thickly as the air was filled with screams. I struggled forward, through the dead and the living, until I finally began to emerge. I ran for a rock not ten feet away just as the machine gun started. If you have never heard a machine gun, it is impossible to understand. That terrifyingly rhythmic sound of death becomes all you hear, like some perverse and unholy form of music. And what death! A cloud of sand appeared where three men huddled on the beach, and in a second, they were sprawling face-down as their life spilled red into the dunes.

Others joined me behind the rock, but we realized that to stay on the exposed beach meant annihilation. Our impromptu platoon pushed forward steadily, losing half our number in doing so. As we neared the trenches, they made the mistake of exposing their flame-pack soldier. Some fast shot behind me put one into his canisters, and he erupted in a shower of napalm all over his neighbors. I swear, their screams as it burned into their faces will haunt me until the day I die. No weapon is so terrible as this that forces men to claw their own eyes out with their nails - none perhaps save gas.

We managed to secure the trench, and by 7:15 am the beach was ours. We had lost 533 men in the process, when over a thousand had stepped onto the boats earlier that morning. We learned that our commander, Major General Aylmer Hunter-Weston, had horribly mismanaged the other four simultaneous beach landings, and that ours was the "clearest" of victories - and so would serve as British headquarters for the time to come. What sort of war is this, where losing half your men comprises a clear victory? God save us all.

Completely irrelevant, but does someone have a reference for >>27?

>>26
To start with, MUDs aren't divvied up into "servers". Everyone playing a certain MUD is playing in the same world. In a way it's more "massively multiplayer" than MMOs. You and your friends aren't going to be load-balanced and randomly distributed into multiple servers when you sign up. Openness to roleplay depends on the admins of the MUD. Some don't care, some encourage it, a few enforce it. So the world as a whole is geared towards or away from it.

Instancing cuts you off from other players. By its very nature it decreases the massively multiplayer aspect in an MMO. You compare MU*s to diablo and counterstrike, I say instanced MMOs would fit that bill better.

In all the MU*s I've played, quests are either non-instanced and reset often, or are generated on the fly, meaning that key items and NPCs only pop up when someone has taken the quest so they're not camped.

I'll second that.

The RP nature of a MU* is very dependent on the particular server and the wizards running it. Some are similar to multiplayer LoRD, others look like multiplayer novels. But in general there's far more real roleplay in a MU* than a MMORPG.

>>28
Looks like a WWI journal. I'm not sure what it has to do with this.

Perhaps it means true roleplaying should be more realistic or have close attention to detail.  For example, read Otherland.  The first chapter happens to be about a guy trapped in a WWI VR simulation.

Everything I want to see in an MMO is right here:

ttp://www.notacult.com/images/CD_MMORPG.swf

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