Name:
For no good fucking reason2007-07-17 22:20 ID:VAHjMJYI
("straight to the point" version at bottom)
Long version-
I've been the poster child of Microsoft (or whatever the fuck you guys call them now) for... I dunno, 5 years? 14-19 years old give or take. From DOS to Vista.
My current programming job was coding ASP classic on a win2k server with mssql server 2000. Now I'm coding C# for asp.net. So in other words, total ms groupie.
Now, say what you will, I actually try not to be very closed minded, so a couple years ago, then again a year ago, I gave linux a shot... several times, several distros:
-(open)SuSE (32 and 64 bit)
(32) I liked this as far as linux goes, but I really don't like Gnome, so I installed KDE instead. MASSIVE memory leaks occurred, couldn't diagnose, got rid of it.
(64) Only 64 bit linux distro that I got to work stably, but I got a new HDD, and decided not to reinstall when I transferred everything.
-K/X/Ubuntu (32 and 64 bit)
(32) Easy enough to use... Until you try to go beyond the newbie boundries. Software that's not in the repository? Have fun installing three development environments and hunting down libs! I must've broken these distros at least 6 times just trying to install too many things that weren't in the repo.
(64) 64 bit ran so terribly and unstably I just lol'd and reformatted the partition within the hour. Then again I've heard some bad things about my CPU (intel core 2) in regards to compatibility, so I wouldn't be too quick to blame the distro.
-Debian
Didn't support my motherboard at the time
-PCLinuxOS
Probably my favorite one, I actually used this in junction with windows for a few months before getting curious about other distros. Unfortunately it has no 64 bit support.
-DSL
Nice for older computers, hasn't come in handy much.
-Knoppix
As much as it's praised for recovery, I'd have to say I've only been able to make use of this for diagnosing network issues and grabbing files from passworded ntfs directories. Beyond that I've been able to manage my diagnosis's, repairs, and recoveries in windows just fine.
-Fedorah core (64 bit)
Installer froze, I was nowhere near ready messing around with that bag of tricks.
So as a windows power user, and someone who's given the alternative an honest shot, the advantages I've observed are existant but small, I wouldn't go back anytime soon for my own purposes. But, I like to be well rounded and available to help in my tech duties. So I think I'll give it yet another shot, but maybe with a little background, some research, y'know?
Straight to the point:
Windows guy giving Linux (yet) another shot, requesting sources of generic guides or other sources of information for someone looking to get comfortable with some of the non-layman aspects of Linux. Not looking to develop or anything, but I'd like to be able to use, troubleshoot, and maybe even have an occasional moment of "oh hay, I should set this file/print server or old computer in Linux".
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-17 22:25 ID:MCUtkinQ
Your problem is you don't have the concept of paying for professional support. You can do anything in Linux if you have the money AND you are not relying on anything proprietary.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-17 22:51 ID:VAHjMJYI
>>2
But you see, I have absolutely no need to learn any of this this. So fuck if I'm going to pay for anything.
Then again, I'm not quite sure what the hell you're talking about, or if that really has all that much to do with the original post.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-17 23:03 ID:MCUtkinQ
>>3
You want 64 bit support? Hire a company that will ensure your software is 64 bit compatible. Motherboard not supported? Hire a company that will modify Linux so it will support it. Installer froze? Hire a company to troubleshoot the enviroment and issue a fix. Need help setting up file/web server? Hire a consultant that would know (or at least be able to know) these things.
If you depend upon proprietary software like Photoshop or Visual Basic or anything else proprietary, then it's your fault for investing in something that causes you to be helpless as soon as they refuse to support your.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-17 23:30 ID:VAHjMJYI
>>4
If they gave out rewards for totally missing the point, you'd get at least a nomination right there.
You seem like you're scolding me for thinking there's a Linux out there made exactly for me, and I'm some corporate manager looking to implement it into the company infrastructure once I get said perfect, unmodified distro.
I just want to familiarize myself with an operating system I don't normally use, for the hell of it and maybe make some good of it later, and sited some previous experience to illustrate that I didn't just install one distro and go "lolwtf? THIS IS TOO HARD >=(" and uninstall it; and thought it may somewhat guide someone who so chose to help me. I know what you're going on about and understand completely, but it really has nothing to do with what I'm asking at all, which are generic references, guides, etc that will help me understand the operating system better without breaking it all the time.
>>7 here
sabayon forced my numlock and capslock off, screen res was maxed out at 1024×768 while I had no trouble getting 1280×1024 in windows (nvidia card), then within 15 minutes the mouse stopped working for no reason. Rebooted in windows and apparently it changed the system clock. Jesus, I think that's why I gave this up for a while.
Guess I'll try openSuSE again
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-18 15:17 ID:NM0n/hre
just give up lol
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-18 15:28 ID:M42kjLYf
>>10
If it weren't for the motivation of boredom, I would've stopped after like the third try =(
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-18 15:52 ID:EHjH8HOr
slackware
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-19 1:49 ID:BVPQTzEb
Mandriva
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-19 3:45 ID:y4tZmVIn
>>5
Sorry if I sounded condescending, that wasn't my intention. I guess my point was/is, *you* (I am referring to the general reader rather than >>5 specifically) need to make an investment if you lack knowledge or if the software does not meet your requirement.
If you need information, you must invest time and effort to get it. Or else you get someone else to do that for you. Somebody has to find and extract that information and if you aren't willing to do it, pay someone else who will. If you want to help the rest of mankind, publish the information you've obtained so that someone else may also benefit from your investment.
If a (free) software is inadequate for your requirements the program code must be modified so it fits your requirements. The code isn't going to change itself so either you or someone else has to change it for you.
If you require compatibility with anything proprietary that hasn't been publically reverse engineered, you're going to need to make a big investment to get that capability. The proprietary thing is proprietary for the reason of preventing competition from "stealing the IP of others"; otherwise, the thing would be fully documented and publically available like file protocols or computer code.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-19 17:17 ID:BVPQTzEb
>>14
Yes, make the users fix everything. That'll bring in more users for shure.
>>15 Computer software designed for general consumption will always be inadequate to somebody. This is a fact and it will never ever change. The computer isn't going to fix itself, it is up to the user to commission an investment to get something done. However, the user doesn't need to fix anything themselves if they can find the right help. Anyone can find the right help if you pay the right price.
Free software isn't about popularity anyway. Free software is about the right of the user to be in complete control of their own systems. You cannot do this if you require the author's permission to control your own computer.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-20 9:04 ID:0y9oHSM4
5 years?
14-19?
DOS-Vista? (2002 XP was already released)
Don't take yourself so serious kid, you are a newbie and judging from the comments (eg: "Debian Didn't support my motherboard at the time") can't quite figure out how to help yourself.
Don't search for advice on how to get started with Linux, Linux will find you if you are ready. Especially don't ask for help, everything has already been asked.
Sorry for my cocky attitude, but my name is Theo (I wish).
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-20 13:32 ID:OXhSAh9z
>>18
Linux is a niche. It is not designed for general consumption.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-20 19:01 ID:ZqrAKAWx
Archlinux is pretty nice to learn. "Easy" (as in for newbs) distros fail at learning because after you install you're just too lazy to do anything. Distros that are more minimal are better as they require you to learn in order to use them and ther inner guts are pretty exposed.
Archlinux is a really hot distro and it's actually quite easy to use. it installs in around 3 hours including downloading the whole thing, and the documentation is pretty good (although by no means as good as gentoo's, and probably debian or redhat's)
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-20 22:41 ID:VTBKf1F2
DEBIAN NET-INST OR GTFO
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-21 2:59 ID:X1TKTtqK
IF U WERE DROPPED TO /opt TOMORROW, I WOULDNT GO 2 UR DELETION CUZ ID B N UPSTREAM BUGZILLA FLAMIN DA CUNT THAT MADE UR EBUILD! __
.' `.
|a_a |
\<_)__/
/( )\
|\`> < /\
\_|=='|_/
WE TRUE NERDS
WE OPTIMIZE OUR CFLAGS TOGETHER
WE TALKIN ON IRC WITH www.opera.com TOGETHER
send this PENGUIN to every thread you care about including this one if you care. C how many times you get this, if you get 256 your A TRUE NERD
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-21 17:58 ID:6Q2j31DP
tldp.org
gentoo-wiki.com (great wiki for non-gentoo as well)
>>28
BSD is for idiots who can't read the iptables man page and lartc.org.
B_____S S__K D__K
Can YOU discover what BSD REALLY stands for ?????
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-24 17:59 ID:YW92rO5+
Use Ubuntu, but open up your repositories to allow for additional software to be installed. Stay away from development unless you're quite familiar with Linux and how to fix the bugs you cause.
I'm a software developer and I've used Linux since the mid 90's (starting with slackware, to gentoo, to debian, and finally on ubuntu)
replace your feisty /etc/apt/sources.list with the text below and most of your "I can't find %s" problems will disappear.
>>looks like DOS.
What do you expect a CLI to look like? It has text arranged on lines, and little else. Oh, wait, sorry, "LOL I NO IT GOT NO THINGY TO CLICK ON MAKE COMPUTHAR GO DO SUTFF!"
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-26 11:50 ID:ZXIONwY4
Read this IN FULL. Only then do you have any right to even think about commenting.
>>34
"How about cutting five words with a Ctrl-X application?
From the start of the words, Ctrl-Shift-Right
Ctrl-Shift-Right
Ctrl-Shift-Right
Ctrl-Shift-Right
Ctrl-Shift-Right
Ctrl-X "
Wow, not a very efficient person... revise it so it's not retarded and his point there starts to fall apart a little:
Hold ctrl, hold shift, right x 5, let go of shift, x
"Linux/motorbikes don't have viruses/doors, so are perfectly safe without you having to install an antivirus/lock any doors"
This is where safe words come in. If he had said "essentially" or "functionally" no viruses, then no problem. NO viruses is inaccurate.
But that's all irrelevant. article read, understood, and point taken. However, I'll stop pointing out that linux falls short as a desktop-oriented OS when linux zealots stop telling layman users to replace windows with it.
Oh, god. I lol'd hard. Enjoy your low user numbers.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-26 20:22 ID:RjJERKrn
User friendly is a myth. His arguments appear to be good. What does "user-friendly" really mean? Well, in the context in which it is used, "user friendly" software means "Software that can be used to a reasonable level of competence by a user with no previous experience of the software." This has the unfortunate effect of making lousy-but-familiar interfaces fall into the category of "user-friendly".
I agree with this. The terms "user friendly" and "intuitive" are not quantifiable and have vague definitions and should have no place in assessing the usability of software. What is quantifiable is the time to learn "feature set f".
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-26 20:39 ID:1+IK7+dj
You started using DOS at age 14, but now you're 19 on Vista?
>>40
Why should you change something if it works well? The only reason I can think of is that something else can be used to make it work better than what you currently have.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-26 22:13 ID:1+IK7+dj
>>41
Just because something works "well" doesn't mean there can't be anything better than it. And this isn't just a matter of personal opinion. Windows 95 is a major improvement over DOS because you know.. of the whole GUI and Windows thing. Windows simplifies everything done in DOS by representing it with a viewable image on a screen and eliminating the need for typing out stupid commands and path names. Honestly, i'd hate to see whatever kind of situation you're in where DOS is sufficient for whatever you use your computer for.
ITT pretentious fags try to act like a CLI is superior just becaue it's old.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-26 23:38 ID:U7ZcO8aa
>>38
Ever heard of poor people? I got my first computer at 14, a 386, in 2002 (got it free from a neighbor). Now, I'm 19, have a job, with which I put together a good computer with Vista. Not too hard.
#39, you can use DOS today with FreeDOS. People are still making bootdisks for various purposes, and some flavor of DOS is generally required to make it function.
Since computers are many times more powerful than required to just run a flavor of DOS and a couple of apps, running a GUI for most purposes is well suited for ease of use. That doesn't mean you should load up some Vista, however. Vista is a foul and stenchly rotting OS, and I'd rather see people continue to use XP than transfer to Linux, when opposed to the upgrade to Vista. Microsoft has not only jumped the shark with Vista, but it calmly landed the motorcycle, dismounted, walked over to the shark, and then skullfucked its butthole! They didn't just jump the shark, they head-ass-raped it!!
DOS is an extreme and I don't expect to see people commonly using it. However, neither should they go to the other extreme and load the latest resource-hog from Microsoft. We have a huge installed base of computers, with more being "obsoleted" (i.e. thrown away by conspicuous consumers) every day, and we have a fine selection of OSes to put on them ... from at least 3 Microsoft OSes (98, 2K, XP), to 2 Apple ones (OS9 and OSX), to a large variety of Linux flavors from the mundane to the sublime. We're literally DROWNING in operating systems!
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-27 7:24 ID:+sXrg/yn
>>44
In 2002 there was the option of Windows 98, 2000, AND XP. Not to mention Windows 95 if you're honestly that bad off.
I'm not saying you should constantly get the latest OS. I'm saying there's absolutely no need to ever be running DOS with all the other options out there.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-27 7:40 ID:urWzb3jo
But, but, if I type on the command line it makes me feel like a real hacker. /cls /dir
See? Fucking awesome. It's like I'm manipulating the computer with my mind.
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-27 8:31 ID:AphvE3V0
FUK DAT GIMM3 BINARY SWITCHEZ & L.E.D'Z FO SHO I BE A REEL HACKX0ZR OR GTFO
Name:
Anonymous2007-07-27 9:02 ID:V+Bif8Y5
FUK DAT GIMM3 SUM CFLAGS AND LET ME OPTIMIZE MI FUNROLL LOOPS WITH EBUILDS DAT DROP TO /opt.
#45, we're largely in agreement. Except for 1.44MB bootdisks, or industrial apps which just "sit in the corner" and run one specific app for a machine or sensor, computers are powerful enough these days to run GUIs just fine, and we should run them. For example, I run Linux, but OF COURSE I run GUIs on it via X. I also run XP, but OF COURSE I run the occasional cmd box for pings or traceroutes. The CLI isn't dead, but it's been remarkably superceded ... kind of like the organism that is now the mitochondria in a Human cell; we're better off using it as a part of our cells.
I was still using Windows 95 at home by early 2007, with Slackware on another computer. (In fact, I could still fire up that same computer right now to post here on 4chan if I wanted.) I started using Win98 at home more and more for other projects, starting in 2005. The Win98 stopped working (probably due to a peculiar motherboard failure) in 2006 and I was stuck using the Win95 for Internet access until I was able to obtain cheap XP computers in early 2007. Now I'm using XP and getting my Slackware stuff back online.