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Software is developing slowly..

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 0:28

What's holding us back? The monopolies? That doesn't explain why Unix is hardly any more advanced than Windows.

A topic on /b/ was joking about how you can rename a .doc filetype to .jpg and it will automatically be converted. Why isn't this so? Why hasn't Longhorn incorporated this? This is one of the SIMPLEST features that could have such a huge impact on ease of use.

But how is it that programs today have no more capabilities than those of 1995? When is this going to change?

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 1:32

windows has an overdeloped gui and little else

its a toy for games where you can drag an drop ur mother

Name: CCFreak2K !mgsA1X/tJA 2005-11-20 2:19

Convert DOCs to JPGs?  What the hell?

AFAIK, development on UNIX stopped in the late 80s with version 10.  Everything else is an offshoot of UNIX code (basically, this breaks down into BSD, Linux and others).

What sort of capabilities have you seen today that we had in 1995?  And who's to say such programs don't do a good enough job today?  Just because it doesn't have a GUI, doesn't mean it's inferior.  Just look at apache.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 7:25

KDE AND GNOME SUCK OKAY

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 18:16

That is because Open-source kids are unroginal and only try to copy the Windows install they had one year ago.

| Convert DOCs to JPGs?  What the hell?
A lot of people who can't understand how images work often e-mail images embedded instead .DOC files. I don't event want to know what would happen after a few round-trips with such a system

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 19:22

Such a system of converting one filetype to another by changing extensions would be stupid. Forget ease of use, and worry more about the destruction of information. Converting a word processing document to an image file would destroy stuff like the formatting, editing ability, etc. You could argue that it could then be converted back (using OCR to read the image into an editable file again), but that wouldn't recover stuff like styles and other "hidden" elements. The whole idea is far too complicated, and riddled with such fundamental conceptual flaws as to be completely unworkable.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 19:31

There should still be less hoops to jump through to convert documents into other formats. The easiest way to do DOC->JPG it would be to print to PDF then export the PDF as a JPG, and it is a pain on every platform.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 20:20

macos comes closest.  drag and drop installation of prgrames FTW.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 20:39

>>1
That's quite possible with current software. If you can find a collection of converters to various formats you could then write a script to find a conversion path from one file type to another, and call the appropiate converters. Converting a DOC to a JPG would be bizarre, but a possible path would be DOC=>EPS=>JPG. I doubt you want to do such bizarre conversions though, for the reasons >>6 mentioned. Besides, converting an editable format like DOC or HTML to an uneditable/hardly editable format like PDF, PS, or even an image, is gayer than Richard Simmons.


>>2
lol lunix troll. Ok, I admit Windows XP and beyond have an overdeveloped GUI, like Gnome or KDE can be. But Linux, on the other hand, is grossly underdeveloped in many areas, and I'd rather take the former.


>>8
While you're wasting your time clicking little icons and dragging around your stuff, I'm touching my harbl posting at world4ch with links.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-20 21:02

gui make ur life easy.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 4:52

>>10

no it give me hedake

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 4:58

Linux, on the other hand, is grossly underdeveloped in many areas, and I'd rather take the former.

A-fucking-men.

Server? Yeah. Desktop? Hell no.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 5:06

There's a very good reason why it's difficult to convert a doc to a jpg: IT IS A RETARDED THING TO DO, ARE YOU FUCKING STONED?

To be fair though, I think people are getting hung up on the doc->jpg comment, instead of thinking of other, more useful conversions that could be referenced in this thread.

Examples like bmp to jpg, wav to mp3, doc to html, where the thing that initiates the converter is changing the extension. Instead of "Changing the extension may make this file unusable", I think the poster is wondering why Longhorn isn't going to pop something up and say "Convert this bitmap to a jpeg?" etc.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 5:34

I think it's hard to see how much progress actually has been made since 1995 due to feelings of nostalgia and blinders getting in the way. At the start of 1995 the best Windows release available was still 3.x since 95 wasn't released until the end of the year and NT was still total shit at that point. OS/2 was excellent by most measures, but it wasn't free/open and Microsoft basically got it killed through their successful marketing of 95, so it never had a chance to thrive. Classic MacOS was getting into the "crashy and overextended" phase of its lifespan. Linux Wasn't Ready For The Desktop Yet. So if you were an average Joe User who had a home PC, you were probably running DOS, maybe with some shell over it, and you might've had a copy of Windows for a few apps. DOS was simple to understand for a command-prompt OS but it took a lot of regular maintainence: all the drivers, even for the mouse, were proprietary and took manual editing of AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS to get working, and all the software using said drivers dealt with them on a case-by-case basis. This was not a fun situation, though it was getting tolerable towards the end with some standardization of memory management and common libraries. And if you were a developer the most common tools were early versions of Visual C++, Borland Turbo (language), and GNU programs.

Multimedia as we know it didn't exist yet; the CD-ROM was still considered optional equipment. And none of these existed yet: the USB standard, MP3 players, digital cameras, webcams, widespread broadband, flash drives, 3d accelerators(with a few exceptions). In a lot of ways 1995 marked the end of computing as a realm purposed only for games and workplace software. There were signs of what was to come with programs like Photoshop and the Macromedia toolset having started to appear years prior, but it took time for them to gain momentum.

Given all of that, I think it's very, very hard to say that we haven't gotten anywhere. Even "poor" Linux boasts apps and features greatly beyond what was available then, and gains more fairly regularly. The problem is that even though we've made strides forward in a lot of the basics, we now have more complex systems, on average, than we ever had previously.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 5:47

I agree, software did evolve. Not that much considering what it could be done and what was done in the early 90s in comparison, but still evolved.

So what >>1 wants is actually a converter integrated into Windows Explorer. Duh. There are so many standalone converters. GUI converters will suck, because they're all about clicks and finding files visually like an idiot when you know their name, and they cannot be automated from a script easily. Commandline converters will do the trick. I bothered to get CLI converters in the appropiate direction (BMP2PNG, for example). Since I'm in the command line all the time, it's much easier to use them. And if you really love the "convert file.type1 file.type2" ssyntax, you can very easily write a script for that. No big fucking deal.

It shouldn't be automagical, that's always a bad idea. The more retard-proof and luser-friendly (not to confuse with user-friendly) you want a system to be, the more headaches it'll give. Renaming a file is changing its name. You don't expect or want its contents to be changed, unless you're a stupid luser who doesn't know what you're doing and a file is like a little magical fairy to you - in which case I suggest you leave your computer alone and go watch TV.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 6:42

There's a very good reason why it's difficult to convert a doc to a jpg: IT IS A RETARDED THING TO DO, ARE YOU FUCKING STONED?

No it is not, and I can think of many good reasons to do it even if it doesn't make immediate sense. For example, you want to give a presentation that includes a .doc as a reference, with parts circled in red, and your presentation software does not import all the fancy stuff from MS Word. Converting the .doc to an image (though you'd want something lossless like PNG in this case) then circling stuff in an image editor is the most obvious way to do it.

Do you really think that computers should make it hard to do stuff that doesn't make immediate sense to do?


>>15
It is because of people like you that "lusers" exist. If "lusers" can't figure stuff out, why can't you re-engineer your systems so that they make fucking sense? Get off your elitist fantasy world, what people want is to have as little stuff as possible to understand before they can do things relevant to their lives with their computers.

Since I'm in the command line all the time
You are such an elite dude. I'm sure you also grow a beard.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 8:50

>>16
Converting the .doc to an image (though you'd want something lossless like PNG in this case) then circling stuff in an image editor is the most obvious way to do it.

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but things don't work like that. First off going to a different program for that would be silly as you have drawing tools in Word. You're wasting time and money (assuming you're paying for your software, huh). Second, you can't easily recover text back into Word, and don't even dream of recovering whatever you drew. An image is a bitmap. It's itrinsically different from vector drawing, always was, always will, there's no fix for it because it doesn't need to be fixed. If you can't understand why these are different and why is this such a bad idea, I'm sorry, but it's your problem, not mine. I'll do my best to explain it if you create a new thread for it.


Converting the .doc to an image (though you'd want something lossless like PNG in this case) then circling stuff in an image editor is the most obvious way to do it.

No, it's not. You're converting your rich text into a bitmap. That's not obvious, logical, or desirable.

You'll say "I can do that on paper, with my hand". Yes, you can, but can you edit whatever you've written, change fonts, align, and search?


Do you really think that computers should make it hard to do stuff that doesn't make immediate sense to do?

No. Computers don't make anything, they're just a Von Neumann machine running instructions. Software developers, who wrote those instructions, do whatever they like, are paid for, and/or feel like the proper thing to do. In this case, what makes sense is to add vectors to your Word document, not to convert it to a bitmap and edit with an image editor just because you like the pencil icon better there. Like I said, I'll post a detailed explanation on vector graphics, rich text, and bitmap graphics on demand if you need it.


If "lusers" can't figure stuff out, why can't you re-engineer your systems so that they make fucking sense?

Because modifying them so that a random luser without a fucking idea of what he/she's doing would be difficult, and the result would suck and be utterly slow, or stupidly automagical to the point it's unusable for anybody, luser or not. Why do you insist on applying whatever concepts you're used to in a computer which is absolutely different? Let me reask this: handwriting is so easy and straightforward, I take a pencil and write, lol. After I'm done writing my 100 page masterpiece, I want to change the font. Can I? What the fuck, don't tell me I can't!? In a computer, it's something as easy as Ctrl+E, Ctrl+Shift+F, type the font I want, Enter. Why can't that be done on paper? That's so counter-intuitive and "illogical" :-( . See what I mean?


what people want is to have as little stuff as possible to understand before they can do things relevant to their lives with their computers.

Like I said, go buy a TV. You can't make Spanish easier, can you? But I want to write in Spanish! I really do! And I don't understand it! Why does it have to be so complex? [whine whine]

It's not a matter of what you want to do. It's a matter of what you know to do. You can't make a plane easier so kids will fly it, because it'll suck, or fail at something kids don't understand. You can't expect to do something with a computer you don't have a frigging clue about. Current automagical drag and drop stuff has already gone too far and sometimes unexpected problems arise and assfuck both lusers and users equally because the computer was instructed to do a lot of things automagically you might not want to do, or you might not assume it'll be doing.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 9:01

I want to convert my J-Pop collection to PDF so I have the lyrics lol, and I guess if I put my Burnout 3 DVD in my car's CD player I can drive faster.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 9:45

>>17
You completely miss the point and I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
I recommand that you re-read the example to understand why keeping the text editable is not required and importing from Word not an option.

You attack the argument that computer stuff should emulate the real world, but it is not an argument I held and I don't see how it is relevant to the debate.

All I said is that converting a DOC to a JPG involves too many steps. If you think anybody here is dumb enought not to know that a JPG is not editable with a rich text editor, you are wrong.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 12:37

>>19
Who wouldn't want to keep text editable? gb2/Adobe. In any case, no, it's very easy. If it fits one screen, you just press Print Screen, then paste at a bitmap editor of your choice. If it doesn't, then converting it to an image is an even badder idea and you shouldn't do that, but if you want to do, you can print it to a Postscript file, then load it from a bitmap editor which supports importing that (any decent one should), and do whatever you need before saving as JPG.

JPG is a bad choice for that though. Use PNG instead.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 12:40

>>20
1. Doesn't work very well for 200-page document
2. Requires cropping
3. The hypothetical example in >>16 requires images. Converting DOC to JPG is pretty useless though.

Name: CCFreak2K !mgsA1X/tJA 2005-11-21 13:30

It is useless.  Let's say you converted it to JPEG.  Now what?  You're going to add lense flare?  In my mind, the reason why we don't have it is because we don't NEED it.

Just FYI, Photoshop can open PDF files (a page at a time, I believe), and render them into an image.

Name: Anonymous 2005-11-21 15:56

Converting a .doc to a .png is useless because if you have MS Word or OOo2 Writer, you already have PowerPoint or Impress. This is software produced to do what you want to, you can import your text document and you can draw on it, you can use different frames (if you want to) and you can display it with nifty little "click" sounds that all the CEOs will love. If you do not have this specialise software to do your presentations, you should think about getting another job.

Don't change these.
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