>>5
Yes, it's "freedom". You're free to fuck yourself in the ass whenever you have to make anything work - in the best case, you'll have to waste several minutes configuring and compiling, and that's if it works out of the tarball, which doesn't happen too often.
You're free to not be able to properly share stuff because of the ugly, shitty mess shared library versions are.
You're free to have 50 alternatives to every problem, none of which works quite right and any of which will require completely different libraries, desktops, sound servers, etc.
You're free to make your working environment look like graffiti because every application is so free it'll use its own toolkits, widgets, icons, style, and naming.
Coming soon: even more freedom: make the OS yourself. In some 30 years, you'll have a working, absolutely free system!
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Anonymous2005-09-12 22:11
>>3
Yes. You see, I actually agree with >>8. I just don't like idiots.
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Anonymous2005-09-12 23:40
I don't know if this is a troll or not, but it's certainly a good question, one which many a Unix fans don't like to answer very often. It's a painful confession, and it's annoying.
If you see Unix as being inconvenient, then you know what: YOU ARE RIGHT LOL!
Unix has a target audience, and if you don't code, run a server, or develop anything then Unix is hardly your answer unless you're talking about using one of those distros like Lindows or Mandrake or whatever- but you'll still be dealing with rough edges which is the compromise in using Unix. There is not a perfect "Windows-user's Unix" just yet, but there's progress and you might just see what you want for your Mom to email and buy couches with by 2007.
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Ekce2005-09-13 2:22
>>10
you know Unix and linux are different things right?
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Anonymous2005-09-13 2:59
>>10
I'm not a troll. I'm really curious about Linux and other OS users. Do you guys actually play pc games or do other sutffs then??
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Anonymous2005-09-13 3:05
>>11
So what? Ignoring trademark issues, linux is a unix.
Oh my god, it doesn't share code, but it duplicates everything else! It's not the same thing!!1!
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Anonymous2005-09-13 4:13
Yes, it is a Unix flavor.
>>10
Problem is, with some knowledge, you can get Windows to be as able as Linux for development (this includes powerful shell, Bash if you want it, native textutils, Perl, Python, PHP, GCC or MinGW, popular libraries like SDL, GTK (if you really want that), etc.), then you'll have your favorite geeky system with the consistency and agility of Windows.
It can be even nicer for development; think I'm doing something and want a friend to try it. He/she'll have to install this library version 2.31b, then compile this other thing, which depends on half a dozen other packages, etc. If it were Windows, I'd just give him the frigging EXE file, and if he doesn't have the libraries, or his version is inappropiate (which doesn't happen often at all), I can just give him the DLLs to place in the same folder as the EXE file. I don't need to throw my shit into /bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/lib, /etc, /var, and a bunch of directories; you keep every project separate and anything will work. I can easily have different sets of include files and libraries for C since they don't go in the same stupid directory, I can manually install and uninstall open source applications by just copying files, etc.
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Anonymous2005-09-13 7:03 (sage)
Linux is "incompatible" because it doesn't run games that were written and compiled for Windows.
VIP QUALITY
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Anonymous2005-09-13 9:00 (sage)
>>15
Of course, Linux should be running Linux games. However, you can hardly make a commercial game that will run on Linux. You'd have to distribute 200 MB of source code so users can read configure --help for 15 minutes, run configure, go make coffee, drink coffee, run make, donwload 10 MB worth of libraries, recursive process (compile them, possibly downloading other packages too), then finally run make, go watch TV (best watch a long movie), then see why it failed, spend hours getting it to work, then make install, so the game starts crapping on every directory, only to find it failed because it expected libraries to be in /usr/local/lib and they are in /usr/lib, and so on.
Once you finally get your game built, and I say your because you can't dream of redistributing that to spare a friend of the suffering (you don't even know where did it store all sorts of shit as it spans for a hundred of directories which are all messed up with other applications), you need to fix your buggy DGA drivers, update your video drivers, and fight your way editing obnoxious configuration files and restarting the X server for approximately a gazillion times, then you might think on playing, if you're lucky enough and the game actually works.
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Anonymous2005-09-14 21:47 (sage)
rofl
glad to see the headz talking to each other
welcome to 1989
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Anonymous2007-02-12 10:24
>>8
Ah, the sweet memories. I wrote that troll myself. What's good about >>8 is that it's partly true.
>>12
Yea, I like to play games. That's why there's a 50 GB Windows-partition. To play games - at least those that don't run natively under Linux (like Quake* and Unreal Tournament*).
>>16
You never heard of games from ID-Software, did you? Buy in a store, d/l Linux-binaries from their ftp and do the stuff from the readme (i.e. copy everything to /usr/local/games and run the downloaded installer). Easy as shit.
Linux is a OS for anyone who likes Lego. For technically interested people. If you hate the fact that you need to put it together yourself, then you probably stay away from it.
>>1 ...there is a compatibility issue??
Which? To buggy MS-Software? Yea, that's a shame.
Are they not gamers?
See above
They don't use general programs??
Yea, it's really a hassle to install 5 different ICQ-clients and test them to find the one you like best. After that you uninstall the other 4 and are never bothered again with stuff. Ok, it's really terrible that you can't play those retarded games with your contacts.
or are softwares actually compatible on linux??
[_] You know how software is written
[X] You don't have a fucking clue
Linux isn't designed for games. It's designed to do actual work. If you want to play games that bad get a fucking console.
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Anonymous2007-02-12 15:30
It's designed to do actual work.
It sure does feel like work whenever you want something to just "work".
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Anonymous2007-02-12 16:34
There is no compatibility issues with linux, its the software YOU know about that have compatibility issues.
I'm a gamer, i play a lot of Quake1,2,3,4 and UT1,2003,2004, xmoto! ;) cube1/2 and such..
I use a lot of general programs.. bash,cd,cp,mv,rm,nano,links,firefox,thunderbird,gimp,dia,oo.o,xaraxl,xchat,gaim,kate,xmms,cinelerra, etcetcetc
actually, i dont know what you are talking about here.. ?
Yes, pretty much every piece of software you could ever need is not only compatible, but designed for linux.
Also, you dont have to be a techie to use linux, if you have any level of basic english skills, you can read your way into being a linux user.
Yes, pretty much every piece of software you could ever need is not only compatible, but designed for linux.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
if you have any level of basic english skills
Oh, god. Too easy.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 2:37
>>25
He said "pretty much". If you miss your pirated Photoshop then buy a Mac.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 2:46
>>1
ever heard of the term "secret format"?
ever heard of the term "computing platform"?
ever heard of the term "closed source"?
ever heard of the term "software patent"?
these are the issues that affect Linux.
tl;dr version
Windows games are developed to a specific "computing platform" - this platform is known as "Direct X". Direct X is implemented on top of another computing platform known as "Windows". Games that rely on Direct X as a computing platform will not operate without it. Right now, there are organizations that are working on implementing Direct X on top of Linux.
As for general programs, it also has the problem of being written to the "Windows computing platform". If these programs were "open source", people wouldn't have any problem modifying the programs to work on Linux. Wine is a project that is working on developing the Windows computing platform to Linux.
Another problem is "secret formats". Software vendors use secret formats in their programs to keep people stuck to using that program. They also do it to prevent competition from developing programs that work with the secret format. This tactic has succeeded and many people are stuck into specific programs because there aren't alternatives available to reading the format as well as programs that have been forced to reverse engineer other software's secret formats.
Another problem is software patents. Without a patent licence, people are not allowed to distribute software that contains patented software routines. Examples would include mp3 codecs and mpeg4 codecs. It is because of software patents that Linux vendors do not distribute all the "good stuff" to "make things work". The user has to get the stuff themselves or the vendor can get into trouble with the law.
it's really a hassle to install 5 different ICQ-clients
It is when it requires you to compile shit for hours and download 23879401 shared libraries nobody knows but were used for some random reason to get shit to work.
And >>1's "compatibility issue" was probably a poor way to say that whatever shit you compile for one Lunix doesn't work in the next one because of lol freedom.
>>28
GNU NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX NOT UNIX
Then run it. It will either copy the files from the CD or it opens a README that explains which files need to be copied manually.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 9:40
I used linux exclusively back when games weren't such a big deal (1998-2002ish) and later started using it for things that basically would make you drool, >>1. You know I can pirate shit with three mouse clicks from any web browser on any computer that will cause my server at home to go fetch a file for me?
I have a little handheld computer that runs NetBSD, my router runs Linux, I have a Debian fileserver and an Ubuntu laptop. I have an XP laptop for work and an XP gaming computer at home. I have experimented with OSX and have decided I don't need it for the time being (but damn, when I see a Mac Mini for $200 on clearance or someshit it will be mine)
Conclusion: learn how to use computers. It's fun and profitable. If you're a linuxfag or a windowsfag or a macfag you have no clue. Learn how to use a computer and then come back here. If you do not share my opinion and use different machines with different operating systems for different tasks, you are a loser (or a troll, trolling losers)
I may have been trolled, but every once in awhile someone has to put you fags in your place. Go back to /v/ and bitch about how much better the console you bought is compared to the other ones
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Anonymous2007-02-13 11:12
Cedega is not a gaming solution.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 11:18
just dual boot, linux is crap for a lot of stuff, and windows is crap for a lot of stuff, don't get on a moral high and lock yourself out of being able to do things, get teh best of both worlds,
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Anonymous2007-02-13 11:41
I am not a gamer and I have found linux versions or alternatives to all the software I use. Utorrent on windows, azureus on linux. TerraIM on windows, gaim on linux. Opera on both, skype on both, etc.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 13:49
it sucks for music making
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Anonymous2007-02-13 14:14
>>35
Baseless assertations; most likely by someone that never even tried it. I other words rampant fanboy fanaticism.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 14:50
>>36
Well, I actually know some professional designers who still don't know that every Linux distro ships with a drop-in replacement for Photoshop, so this reaction is not surprising.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 15:52
If you're referring to gimp, no. Gimp is fine as a free software image manipulator but is not a drop in replacement for photoshop. If you're referring to Krita, its not yet good enough as a replacement; give it time and it should become a worthy competitor.
I have tried it before, rosegarden and beast are ALRIGHT I suppose, but i'm not a fan of how they work and what are my alternatives? pretty much nothing else.
I even prefer ardour to cool edit, but there's just isn't ENOUGH stuff out there to compete with what windows has to offer, oh and don't even get me started about 'jack'.......
But Linux is not GNU, no matter how much Richard Stallman whimpers that it is. You can replace all the GNU-based OS tools with proprietary, closed-source rewrites and it will still be legal and legitimate Linux.
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Anonymous2007-02-13 23:00
By the way, anyone who says "dual boot" is a drooling moron
But Linux is not GNU, no matter how much Richard Stallman whimpers that it is.
Stallman's argument is probably regarding distros, not the kernel itself.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 2:08
>>43
truth. it is the combination of the gnu operating system with the linux kernel running underneath.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 3:17
>>40
He doesn't, he always says that it's GNU/Linux. It's both.
You can't just replace some of them with proprietary ones, because it may violate the GPL (derived work). And hey, most SW in GNU/Linux operating systems is licensed under the GPL, which was created by the GNU-people.
Maybe in the future there will be GNU/Hurd or OpenSolaris, which will be licensed under the GPLv3. I just hope that OpenSolaris won't get the running gag that Hurd is :)
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Anonymous2007-02-14 6:24
1. Linux is Unix, as it's POSIX compilant and mostly follows Unix tradition, style and feel.
2. GNU/Linux is Unix.
3. I call it just Linux, which is the kernel, i.e. essential part of the OS, and when I want to be more specific, I mention the distribution. I'll do this regardless of if the GNU guys want it called GNU/Linux for including GNU tools, the vim guy wants it called vim/Linux for including vim, and id Software wants it called Quake3/Linux if you install Quake 3.
>>45
You can replace anything by propietary software without violating the GPL. You only cannot distribute it. GPL does not restrict use, it restricts distribution.
BTW, the day Hurd comes out, I'll call it Hurd, not GNU/Hurd, tee hee.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 9:08
glibc is part of the operating system. this is the gnu part that is specifically the operating system. you can't say glibc is a minor part of the gnu/linux distro - everything else depends on glibc (provides the posix platform) and linux (manages computer hardware resources)
vim is computer software, not operating system software. ls, init and rm are not operating system software, they are computer system software.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 9:09
disregard my other post. accidental posting.
glibc is part of the operating system. this is the gnu part that is specifically the operating system. you can't say glibc is a minor part of the gnu/linux distro - everything else depends on glibc as it provides the part of the posix platform. linux also provides part of the posix platform as well as managing computer hardware resources)
vim is computer software, not operating system software. ls, init and rm are not operating system software, they are computer system software.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 9:33
>>46 You can replace anything by propietary software without violating the GPL. You only cannot distribute it. GPL does not restrict use, it restricts distribution.
So... where do you want to download those programs then?! It's fine if you want to write your own midnight commander, but as long as you can't distribute it, noone gives a damn about it.
So no, you can't REALLY write proprietary replacements since "proprietary" itself means that you give it to others without any source code.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 10:48
>>49 where do you want to download those programs then?!
You can download binaries. (OMG OMG BINARY PACKAGE!!!) Or write them yourself.
Propietary itself means it's propietary. I can buy it from someone who distributes ONLY THAT PART, then integrate it into my private copy of Lunix, or I can write it myself.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 11:21
Opera sucks sure there's an ebuild for opera but it just get dropped to /opt, it's statically linked, and it's CLOSED SOURCE, which means that it is a BINARY package.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 15:20
CFLAGS JUST KICKED IN YO
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Anonymous2007-02-14 16:05
>>50
Sure, but just if it isn't linked with any GPL'd libs
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Anonymous2007-02-14 16:30
>>50
Distributing the binaries breaks the license, since you must also provide the source for any binary.
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Anonymous2007-02-14 16:35
>>54
Distributing binaries ALONE that just happen to work on a GPLed operating system does not break anything.
>>57
Yes it does. If you don't have the source code, it's like saying you're free just because your prison cell is unlocked, but unless you actually have the key, you are not free at all. Got it?
>>58
so that's why I didn't understand you. Your computer doesn't have any freedom - it only does what it is instructed to do. You should have said something along the lines of receiving the binary to a piece of software without the complete source code infringes on my right to maintain complete control of my own system.