Linux thread

Linux is such an excellent operating system!
I especially like having my choice of window manager.
Right now, I am running FVWM.
What do you like or dislike about Linux?

It's a little hard to get used to using a console as your right arm if you're used to Windoze. Learning new commands is a bitch unless you ask around or have some resource book to teach yourself the basics and move on from there.
Driver-support's a little sloppy. Unless you're a coder or a hacker (read, not cracker), I can't really recommend it.

Driver support is getting better recently.

Yeah, drivers are what keeps me from recomending it to my friends and family, because always there will be something that wont bloody run. Printers are the worse. In fact, its pretty much the fact that my Lexmark printer (and also my USB keyboard for some reason) won't work that keep me from using it as my primary OS.

I'm trying to install Ubuntu/PPC, and the install froze on "copying remaining packages" at 43%.
So that sucks.
On the other hand, the installer actually recognized my FireWire drive, which Linux 2.4 didn't.

I've been using Linux as my primary desktop since 1994. I like it. I've recently (in the last year) switched to using Gentoo from rolling my own installations because I get about the same effect without having to handhold the compilations during install. I buy or build computers which I know to have working drivers, although sometimes I have to patch kernels to get certain hardware working. Over time that problem usually goes away, though, as drivers make it into the vanilla kernel.

I've used most other Unices, including crufty types like Ultrix, Cray Unicos, early IBM AIX versions (ugh), HP-UX (ugh^2), etc. I never got to use SGI's IRIX much, although the few times I played with it I liked it. Not enough to bother to get the Indy in my lab working yet, though.

After years and years of sysadmin work I hardly care much about the OS I run, just as long as it does what I need to get stuff done. I run Linux because it's the easiest to install and get going, and because I'm used to it.

I've been on Gentoo since September last year (yes I know, software ricers who think watching GCC output makes them 31337), and I really enjoy using GNU/Linux on my home computer. Other than the restricted library of commercial games, there isn't anything I can't do with it, and the endless amount of flexibility makes it very appealing.

I also played around a bit with Ubuntu about a month ago, but while it's an excellent introductory distro for pampered Windows users who would usually be afraid of Linux, it felt like a much more rigid and limiting experience. At least with Gentoo, once you've got the core system utilities installed, you're free to emerge any package you like without first being forced into X _and_ GNOME, plus other apps I'll never use like postfix, gThumb, and XSane. The result is a much leaner, more custom-tailored installation. Then again, Windows users would shudder at the thought of beginning with a CLI, so I guess it's fair tradeoff for them.

Would anyone introduce me to a nice Linux OS (free)?  I've been thinking about trying Linux out for awhile now.

What I love about Linux is that it's much more easy to use than Windows has ever been for me.  I've the freedom to do pretty much anything I wish on my machine.

I like that I don't have to spend big bucks on packages that don't quite do what I need them to.

I like that I no longer need to install 10 similar applications, each one lacking features that I need..

I love that the answers to my questions of `How do I do task X?' are NOT "You can't" or "You need to buy package Y"

I enjoy being able to play any DVD I purchase or rent, without worrying about the DVD installing crap players on my machine.  I like not having to worry about whether or not a DVD is the proper region.

I also enjoy being able to play every media file I've run across, mostly flawlessly.

I love pipes and regular expressions.  I also love that so many devices are available as files.  It's nice that it doesn't hide things from me.

>>8
build an lfs at a reasonable pace...
you will learn sysv style linux

linix sux btw lol

I like that any software you want is both free (beer or speech) and easily available (apt-get wtf)

What I don't like is that linux has become more GUI focused, whereas BSD's don't really come with a useable version of KDE or GNOME -so they throw you to the command line.

But, that's the direction that computing has gone.

blackbox got famous on bsd...
but, true.. most {o,n}bsd is run cli
fbsd is pretty desktoppy though

I wonder how long until that retard Pwnz3r decides to post his religious drivel.

Linux is great as server software, and very good for programming to boot. You'll never convince me to give up some form of unix for either of those tasks. But the desktop has a long way to go. Despite all the years I've used *nix I cannot stand using linux/bsd/etc for desktop usage.

Of course, Windows sucks too, but in different ways.

To me, 'desktop' doesn't mean having a rediculously pretty GUI interface-- a truely 'desktop' OS has to do things like handle swapped USB devices on the fly (decided you needed to use a USB keyboard? lol XFree), stable crash-proof filesystems (NetBSD's LFS--10 years and still worthless), decent interactive performance (Linux's threading is great, however NetBSD's threads suck serious ass), and even being stable on 'commodity' hardware is necessary ("lol buy Real Man hardware like I did instead of VIA chipset or Dell fagg0r crap!") ...ooh, and DRI for OpenGL on the generic hardware is needed too.
I'm been a NetBSD user for 10+ years, and I've given up on the above essentials will ever eventuate...

I have tyoed with the idea of switching over to Linux but there are a few thing keeping me from doing so:

Immature desktops: Gnome and KDE both seemed far short of finished products to me, they have potential for sure but they're not there yet. Preferences were particularally bad in the KDE I tried, The various control panels were all over hte place! 

I know the shell commands derive from UNIX, but GEEZ!  Why could htey have not been named mroe intuitivly? (Delete, List, Rename, etc)

Drivers: nVidia and ATI supply them but they don't seem mature compared to their Windows versions

Apps: I have some Windows apps I couldn't do without, such as Photoshop and Dreamweaver. They don't run in Linux and probably never will have Linux versions. And no, GIMP is no substitute for Photoshop. 

Games: Um, hello?  There's a couple around, yes, but not nearly enough

But still, keep up the good work, Linus, you'll get there sooner or later , i'm sure, and nobody trusts Microsoft anymore.

Ha, ha. GIMP. A true example of opensource at work.

It's free, it works, it's powerful... and it's utterly unusable due to the braindead interface.

>>16
KDE is alot more customizable than windows, you can have one panel with everything if you want. Mine is just simple, quickstart, taskbar, and systray on one panel.

I don't care too much for the desktop systems offered by gnome or kde..
My .xinitrc looks like (in part):
` xsetroot -mod 4 8 -fg "rgb:0/50/0" -bg black
` unclutter &
` /usr/local/libexec/gnome-settings-daemon & # keep gtk2 apps happy
` sawfish-1.2 &
` exec gnome-panel-1.4.2
...takes only a few seconds to load (none of that 'initalizing services' crap..) and I have the featurefull yet crapless versions of the desktop interface. ("Let's make the next major version of sawfish/panel/etc have fewer customization options so it becomes useless to powerusers, lol.")

>>16
I only used KDE for a very brief period of time, but as a longtime GNOME user, I can tell you that things have progressed dramatically in the past year and they're only getting better. Especially for those who complain about lack of automation, Project Utopia is progressing in leaps and bounds, and it has already been officially integrated in GNOME 2.8. That means you can plug your digital camera into the USB port and immediately start uploading photos with gThumb. I saw this myself when my sister got her new camera over the holidays.

As far as video card drivers go, NVIDIA just plain rocks with awesome performance and hassle-free installation. On the other hand, ATi blows donkey cock.

I usually only play FPS games on my PC, and Doom 3 on Linux ran without a hitch till the very end. Now I just play Quake 3 Urban Terror or Generations Arena.

>>7
people who think less of others because of their OS of choice are stupid. I have a winxp desktop because it is in every way superior to any other operating system for multimedia, not because I'm afraid of the command line interface (in fact, I have two UNIX machines running next to the desktop, a freebsd server and a freebsd -current machine that I toy with)

Anyway, a good thing about linux (well, unix) is that there are a lot of choices, and once things are set they usually stay the same - unlike all the windows installs I've done so far, which degrade with time. These things, however, are not offset by the fact that to "get" linux (unix) you must become (or already be) a fat pasty lifeless nerd. I suggest you play with unix for a few months and then go back to windows and laugh at the dumbasses strugling with their crappy quasi-desktop.

>>17 is still in love with his MDI windows

Just forgot to mention EXT3 owns.

EXT3 hardly "owns". It does its job well, and fulfills its design specifications, but the goal was intentionally conservative.

I think he met "ReiserFS" (at least I hope he did).

Myself and another admin type did a bit of benchmarking for what was the best/fastest filesystem to serve fansub archives (mostly read-only, large files) from at Anime LAN parties-- ext2 was the clear winner, with ext3 second, and the other journaling filesystems at the 10-30% lower mark. ext3 would be the first choice considering how the hosts of our LANs rarely have a UberUPS for everyone to use. :)

EXT3 the winner over XFS and JFS? For reading large files?

And you really sure?

>>21
>>I have a winxp desktop because it is in every way superior to any other operating system for multimedia

Your address has been forwarded to your local macintosh user's cabal.  They will be arriving shortly...

>>26/27
ext3 is ext2 + journalling and whatever new stuff (like extended attributes).  There's no special code for handling large files or anything like that.  Unlike most other journalling FSes, you can actually set the level of journalling to get Fast Like Reiser (including files full of gibberish after a crash/power failure), or Slow Like Molasses (where every byte of data is journalled and recovered).  Standard setting is to journal metadata only.

>>17
I'm sorry you're unable to grasp the concept of the context menu.  I'm also sorry people like you forced gimp 2.x to put the context menu across the top of every window so people would quit whining about it, especially since it didn't seem to satisfy most of the whiners who insist it should work differently but never manage to explain how other than "rip off photoshop".

Because maybe, just maybe we have a better idea about usability. GIMP is written by programmers, and it sure seems like they've never extensively used Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Painter, etc. If they had they'd quickly start cloning their interface (or spend time to come up with a different one that works).

I can almost use photoshop with my eyes closed. Same with PSP. I've spent hours trying to do the most basic of tasks in GIMP, and it's a pain. Rudimentary tasks take too many clicks, even if you change the shortcuts to your tastes. Menu layout is broken. Where's the macros (no, I'm not doing script-fu for some some batch edit I'll run just once)? What's with the window placements and focusing?

But hey, don't listen to me. Don't listen to real professionals who use Adobe and other software to make their daily bread. They tried GIMP, pointed out the problems, but what do they know? They're just artists.

>>27
Yes I'm Really Sure.
The two of us did the tests largely to shut up a poser XFS weenie up who's the type of idiot sysadmin who tries to impress people with his Knowledge (with a captial K). XFS and JFS were at the bottom of the performance list for RL storage on commodity not-really-production hardware like those nice and cheap MiniITX boxen. ("lol I'd serve all my anime off 10k rpm SCSI RAID'd drives!" "Fsck off, kid.")

Now that's interesting. How'd you test it and what version of kernel? Can you give me a spread of filesizes?

>>29
"Not being Photoshop" isn't a problem, its a feature.
Adobe isn't exactly the proud owner of the learning curve, you know.  How many users go for days or months before discovering that if you hold down SOME buttons, they change to different tools?  (I understand that recent versions now have a little arrow in the corner to let people who know that the arrow means theres more than one tool in that button know that theres more than one tool in that button)

>>31 My test setup:
VIA EPIA800 V, 128MB PC133 RAM
Probably the 2.6.4 kernel..
Silicon Image ATA133 controller; 200GB "Diamond Max 10" Maxtor, 7200 rpm, 8mb/cache. hdparm'd properly.
Apache 2, wu-ftpd.

Throughput tests involved single and multiple concurrent runs of bonnie+, iozone, tar -f - >/dev/null; and wget from other machines (over 100BaseT). I don't have the logbook with the raw timing data around, though. With the wget and tar tests, the files it spidered through were a fansub archive, typically 134-300MB each.
ext2 came out in front, although bad hdparm options affected it greatly (large readahead didn't improve things, in spite of just serving large files). ext3 was next, then reiser3 (I guess from it primarily being a read-only test), then the rest about a step further down that did poorly on the head-trashing tests.

We had a burn party just a few days ago, actually, and the machine set up by the abovementioned "XFS weenie" did exceedingly poorly. It took me over 6 hours to leech ~80GB off that system, whereas the ext3 machines belonging to another guy had no problems maxing out. (The leeching record of the day was like 240GB in <3 hours. Yes, he had 1000BaseT..)

>>10
Good points. Similar sentiment here. Really, as long as you keep your codecs and players up to date, you can play anything. Keeping it up to date is usually a matter of 1 command..

Having Windows be able to play any video file is so bothersome at times..

I love the GIMP. I was used to Photoshop about three years ago, but since I use a (Gentoo) Linux (Gnome) desktop for everything (except Battlefield 1942 mod Forgotten Hope and some other games) I learned using the GIMP and now I can do whatever I need to do much faster and more efficient then before with Photoshop.

It's GUI is very different from the Microsoft Windows MDI concept, but it can be very powerfull as long as you use multiple virtual desktops (which is very easy in Gnome/KDE and even possible in Windows XP with a piece of software).

Linux on the desktop, it isn't for everyone yet, but it is getting along very nicely.

I suppose I should not be so harsh with GIMP. It does work. It's just I'm suffering from a case of disappointment and disillusionment.

I started using GIMP in 1998. Oh, those were the heady days. Linux 2.0 had come out not long before, and a lot of us sincerely believed opensource was going somewhere. GIMP wasn't Photoshop 4.0 yet, but at its pace I thought it would not be long until it did.

Then development... went dead (or so it seemed). When GIMP 2.0 _finally_ came out last year, it was a disappointment. We were promised a lot of things that just never appeared. GIMP2 is little more than GIMP1 with GTK2 and some added sugar, really.

And the interface is bust. I use GIMP only a bit less that PS6 now (GIMP: several hours a week for the last couple years or so). Yes, it's with virtual desktops. Yes, I've changed the WM focus settings just for GIMP. I've changed all the keybindings since I rarely use menus. And it still takes a lot longer to do the same thing. It's not a case of lack of familiarity, it's a case of broken workflow.

No matter what opensource people may say, photoshop currently has the interface to beat for actual users. And no wonder, you can be sure they've invested the money to find what works and what doesn't, doing workflow studies, asking artists what they like and dislike, and employing actual usability experts. It's not perfect, but regrettably GIMP can't hold a candle to it.

In the end, a piece of specialist software written by volunteers relatively unfamiliar with that particular domain aren't going to beat photoshop ever. GIMP still isn't at PS4's level overall. Adobe has nothing to worry about.

>>33
Thanks for the details. It runs counter to my own experience, but it's definitely interesting.

Paintshop Pro > Photoshop & Gimp

Tux Racer > Solitare

Tux Racer > Solitare

Bumping old threads since 1492.

FACKIN' BIG PENIS.

Linux is good. I use it on both my machines. But you must admit, it really is sub-par in some areas, like software mixing of sound. /dev/dsp device or resource busy LOOOOOOL!!!1