moving on, I'm really liking Girls und Panzer so far. Great animation, great cuts, and the composition for the tank battle sequences are technically proficient. Lots of weight and momentum when a tank fires a shot, the layout work is sublime
based Mizushima, I'm sorry I doubted you after Another
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 17:20
I can't stand girls und panzer
Moe of life in anime are like Shooters for video games
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 17:35
What about Code Breaker
this anime have a lot of amazing animation especially the effects
It's definitely bahi since he says
>Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Iso, Ohira, Okiura.
>Inoue
All of his favourite artists and films.
I have to say I am disappointed in you Bahi, I never knew you had such terrible opinions.
>>530
I get the feeling he is, but he hides behind the persona he's built up(why he also deletes many of his tweets), he can come here and vent all he wants under an anonymous name.
Also the use of "-->" - is something he did when he came here in thread #1.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 18:02
>>527
Not bad. I assume that's from Girls und Panzer?
>>536
That's pretty much the only YATP short that is an adaptation isn't it? I guess this could be used to test the waters for a full blown adaptation. Still looking forward to Yoshinari's Little Witch Academia the most.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 18:22
>>539
But didn't he say he won't be posting here at all?
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 18:23
>>541 A person can lie, also posting anonymously means he needs not show his name.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 18:27
>>542
True. I guess I just like to think that most people will mostly be honest even when posting anonymously.
But anyway, that post got me thinking, who are the best animators that the west has to offer? I'm rather curious about that and I'd certainly like to see the difference in their work compared to the Japanese animation heavyweights like Iso that we are more familiar with.
>>525
It was me
I dont see why people will pretend be Bahi here ?
Anyway i'm kinda new to 4chan threads , so i dont know the past
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 18:45
Richard Williams mentioned that he was surprised that Tom & Jerry was done on 2s considering how full and rich the animation was. It makes me think of Mitsuo Iso's full limited style and how you can achieve some powerful animation by subtly controlling what a mixture of frames can convey to the audience. Are 1s really the pinnacle of 2D animation? Do we really understand everything about timing and spacing? The West doesn't seem to be interested in 2D animation anymore and if we're lucky, a Japanese animator manages to stumble upon a revelation once in a blue moon about the medium.
This is what makes me think that we haven't reached the full potential of 2D animation
Name:
gutsy frog2012-11-05 22:22
The funny part about that Richard Williams thing is that he said that the perfect smoothness of 3DCG doesn't harm the appeal and I can't agree there. It doesn't HARM it but it's pretty different to watch a Pixar film compared to a loose 2D cartoon that isn't super-smooth. Both have their place.
The LOL SILLY AMERICANS thing was dumb, of course, but it does seem to me like so many of these old animators are following pretty arbitrary rules if for no other reason than 'this is how things SHOULD be'. From the later Looney Tunes shorts that people always bring up to something even more limited like Kanada or Miso's animation, there's no doubt that not animating on 1s all the time just creates mores tyles to choose from and still requires work and skill in the end, and that many audiences will enjoy that variety.
It really reminds me of how John K often takes his own preferences in style and attempts to pass them off as far more general principles. Though of course he's always way more trollish about it.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-05 23:48
Maybe what the not-Bahi guy was saying is a bit excessive, but the other side of the spectrum (putting Disney on a pedestal) is even more retarded.
Disney animation is always the same, mindless movement just for the sake of movement; always exaggerated, always cartoonized and stylized, there was simply not enough variety and no ambition beyond the initial spark.
That they managed to refine such an obtuse approach to the masterful level they did speaks wonders about the genius of the old nine men and their successors, but certainly not about their philosophy.
Most western animators started to robotically imitate Disney's style because they couldn't think of a new idea to save their life. WB is great, but still maintains a very similar philosophy in which everything has to be moving and every hint of individuality is thoroughly erased.
The astoundingly different approach to art and expression over at Japan, and the different approach to the production process that developed over there triggered their animation style, which due to money concerns and heterogeneity of animation studios all over the place is much broader in approach. You can have people like Ohira, Kanada and Okiura working at the same country, even in the same movie! and their approaches to animation couldn't be more different.
I would say there is an actual lack of 1s animation in Japan, and that it would be nice to see some of that, but conversely there was (and is) an overkill of 1s and "illusion of life" bullshit over this side of the world. Arts historically allowed the artist to express his individuality and vision through whatever means they desired. Traditional classic western animation kills that and establishes a style too homogeneous for its own good. Now the world is globalized, indie animators (as few as there are) and foreign styles are much easier to look for and study, and a lot of 2D animation is a hybrid between many ideologies. Discrediting Japan's animation, or reducing the art movement that developed over there to merely monetary concerns is not acceptable nor rational any more.
While it's obvious that nobody here does that, I feel that there is still an excessive respect for traditional Disney animation that just isn't deserved. Or maybe I just wanted to vent, whatever, these discussions are nice to have, so if anyone wants to respond or refute me they are welcome to do so.
Name:
gutsy frog2012-11-06 3:09
>>547
obviously something like The Princess and the Frog is just going on "Disney autopilot" but I do see some unfair generalizations here.
"every hint of individuality is thoroughly erased"? come on. www.youtube.com/watch?v=37eDh7jrz7M#t=1m18s this is great visual acting, a character doesn't need to just magically freeze in place occasionally to be expressive. there's almost always movement in this short, but that doesn't mean there's no subtlety and no trace of the 'souls' of the artists.
the Disney obsession with high, consistent framerates is bad because it just gives animators less room to mess around with timing and whatnot. Michelle Xin said this in the Yuasa stream and she's not just some 4channer or whatever, she actually works in the American animation industry and experienced how these things work first-hand.
"Discrediting Japan's animation, or reducing the art movement that developed over there to merely monetary concerns is not acceptable nor rational any more. "yeah you're right but you're doing the same to classic American stuff, pretending that it's all just super-wacky and moving for the sake of it at all times, has no subtlety etc.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-06 3:46
>>548
I admit my post might come off as a bit aggresive, but I wasn't really bashing Disney. I like them, their animation is superb and the pinaccle of their philosophy. I do believe it has subtlety, and they have mastered character acting to a point I hardly see in anime. My grip is with the philosophy they have for their craft. I reckon some western animators could go to quite the extremes to defend their "illusion of life" and adhere to every single one of the 12 principles to the letter. This is not healthy for an art form, and (at least in my vision) it gets stale quickly. Especially when your movies don't have a particularly amazing direction -and this is a view I won't change, Disney films are not that well directed-
The video you posted is great, the animation is lively and there is certainly a "rawer" feeling than pure Disney fare. But do you see the same kind of expressionistic energy that is present in a sakuga scene by a guy like Ohira or Utsunomiya, for example? In comparison, I'd say it's still very homogeneous and much closer to classical Disney than anime.
I don't know the specifics about production over at WB, but iirc they would often have two or three (or even more) animators working at the same cut. Ones doing objects, others doing effects, the skilled ones assigned to single characters. Compare with how it works in Japan, where only one person is in charge of everything present on the screen at a given moment. To me this reflects two very distinct ideologies about what art and entertainment should be and how they should be made. I certainly am more in line with the latter.
*Disclaimer: I am aware that I'm comparing animation from the '40s and earlier with something that developed more than thirty years later. Disney had a huge influence on animation worldwide, including anime at its genesis. I will give them that. My grip with them is that they didn't ever diverge from their shtick, and neither did most western commercial animation (except for some significant exceptions), while Japanese commercial animators applied Disney's principles to their vision and ideas, and permeated their work with themselves, instead of trying to blur into the performance.
Anyway, how is Tempest compared to Canaan so far? I've only seen the first ep.
Name:
gutsy frog2012-11-06 4:10
>>549
I'm not sure about objects, but I don't really mind individual animators being assigned to individual characters; it ties in will with the idea of animators as visual actors. though I also like the anime equivalent.
it's true that the idiosyncrasies are subtler than than, say, the difference between an Ohira scene and an Inoue one, with Ohira often going for his super-sketchy style. it's not just the style of the movement that changes but also the art style, and that's a big part of why I love Japanese stuff. and I also prefer it when the framerate isn't always constant. both of these are largely because I like to think of animation more as "making drawings move" than "the illustion of life"; I DON'T want the mark of the artist to just disappear into the performance. then again, not all 'old school' centric, western animators want that either; John K is known for being close-minded and kind of an asshole about his opinions, but even he likes the idea of being able to tell scenes apart based on their animators. which is why on his better days he can say good things about stuff like FLCL.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-06 4:29
>>547
I just don't think fully praising one and bashing the other is a good idea. Both sides have their good/bad sides.
Saying things like
>The americans never mastered 2D animation
>The japanese mastered 2D animation
Just shows that a person has a very one sided view. He is putting Japan on a pedestal and putting down America, and it's the same thing "weeaboos" do with regard to Japan.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-06 4:48
>>553
Are you trying to say that a man can't prefer japanese animation over US one ?
>>554
Preferences are preferences, you can like what you like.
But I think there's a limit where you can make sweeping statements that glorifies everything about one and then condemns everything about the other.
I'm not saying Disney is the best shit ever. I just think it's not healthy to get into that kind of mindset like Bahi/notBahid.
Name:
Anonymous2012-11-06 5:52
I see , it's fair enough
I misunderstood your statement then
sorry.
The differences in mindset and philosophy of US And Japanese Animation is a great subject. American show like Motorcity that embrace Japanese style and mix it up with American styles is great.