Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon. Entire thread

Non commutative ring and polynomial faggotry

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-30 16:43

Howdy, chaps ?

Say, has any one really been far even as to do look more like ?

Consider a polynom with coefficients over a non-commutative ring. How do you define roots of such a polynom ? Basicly, how do you define the induced factorisation of such a polynom ? What can you tell about the aforementionned root (numbers, relations, sauce) ?

And the least important part to us mathematicians : is this useful for anything ?

Name: Anonymous 2009-11-30 19:55

Fuck abstract algebra.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-02 2:37

I've never understood abstract algebra and even my number theory is kinda shit.

But as to the last question, I read in this very boring book called "the mathematician's apology" that the point of higher more "useless" math is to make the processing of more applied math easier.

A (probably somewhat stupid) example:  No one really cared about algorithms until computers came about.  Now There's an entire field devoted to that and it's all rooted in the same stuff as ever.  If/When quantum computers take off, more branches of math will need to be developed.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-02 2:59

>>3
I read in this very boring book called "the mathematician's apology"

Meh, is it really boring? I was going to read that one.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-02 3:07

>>4
I really only picked it up because of the title.  Knowing a little about it might have helped.
I didn't realize, for example, that it's really about math and not a little book of anecdotes about math teachers.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-02 3:32

Howdy, chaps ?

I had an answer yesterday : the teacher told us that for example if you consider X²+1 (or something like this, there was some noise at that time) over the Quaternion field, there is an infinite number of roots...  in any case, this polynom has at least 3 roots in H, i j and k. Nevertheless I still need a proper definition of a root in non-commutative business.

Btw, I heard that theorical physics need non-commutative algebra so it might be more useful than I thought at first sight.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-02 5:15

>>5
I guess you didn't realise that the title means "in defense of mathematics", not "I'm sorry for being a mathematican".

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-02 23:29

what kind of "proper" definition are you looking for, it's the _root_ of the polynomial... since it's noncommutative, you just have left and right coefficients for your polynomial

r is a root of f(x) if and only if f(r) = 0.

its harder to factor shit since you're not used to it, but you can still do it

i.e. f(x) = ax^2b-ax-xb+1 = (ax-1)(xb-1) has roots that are the right inverse of a or left inverse of b, if they exist.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-03 3:48

>>8

At first I did'nt think of "left" or "right" thingies. I wondered how you could obtain a root factorisation when using non-commutative coefficients since the order matters. It's clear now, thanks to you. The last thing I need is if there is a property on the numbers or the multiplicity of roots.

The whole problem appeared when I was studying some algebra book. The author starts by showing that the multiplicative group of a finite field is always cyclic, but he's using a commutative property to do so. Atm he has not demonstrate the Wedderburn theorem so we must assume the fiel is not commutative, hence faggotized his demonstration. The main point was : X^d-1 has d or less roots in a field. So in non-commutative business this is wrong and I was fucked up.

Name: 4tran 2009-12-03 8:21

I'm pretty sure left/right inverses are the same in associative algebras.

Lemma: identity element is unique (if there exists a left and right identity)
Suppose there are left/right identities: L,R, respectively.
Then L = LR = R by the definition of the corresponding identities.  Thus, L = R, and there is only 1 identity.

Suppose there are left/right inverses of an element g: l,r, respectively.  Then
rg = Identity(rg) = (lg)(rg) = l(gr)g = lg = Identity
Thus, right inverses are also left inverses.

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-03 11:03

>>9
i have no idea about number of roots of a polynomial over non-commutative ring, maybe one of these books might have something.

A First Course in Noncommutative Rings by T.Y. Lam
http://ifile.it/pdi5017/lam.djvu

Noncommutative Algebra by Benson Farb, R. Keith Dennis
http://www.mediafire.com/?mm4zm3eemq3

wikipedia says there are left/right euclidean algorithms over these rings. but you should remember that polynomials dont always factor completely into their roots, just irreducible factors (i'm guessing left/right irreducible in non-commutative case), and the factorization might not be unique.

also see
www.emis.de/journals/GMJ/vol10/v10n4-10.ps+roots+of+a+noncommutative+polynomial&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&;gl=us" target='_blank'>http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:CVVS3xHTxGAJ:www.emis.de/journals/GMJ/vol10/v10n4-10.ps+roots+of+a+noncommutative+polynomial&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&;gl=us
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncommutative_fundamental_theorem_of_algebra

dont know if those will be helpful

>>10
i think you meant L = LGR = R, but yeah, i guess so

Name: Anonymous 2009-12-04 2:20

>>11

Fuck yeah ! Fuck thanks also.  Might find all I need in this. You're awarded 2 free internets.

Newer Posts
Don't change these.
Name: Email:
Entire Thread Thread List