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True science, true relgion do not contradict

Name: Anonymous 2009-02-05 4:25

EVOLUTION

        It is historically inaccurate to maintain that modern science forced
the Church to come up with ideas about Genesis 1-3 that differ from the
allegedly "literal" views of Protestant Fundamentalists.  In his "De Genesi
ad Litteram Libri Duodecim" [Twelve Books on the Literal Interpretation of
Genesis] and "De Genesi contra Manichaeos Libri Duo" [Two Books on Genesis
against the Manichees], St. Augustine (354-430), Prince of the Fathers and
Doctors of the Church, gave many interpretations of Genesis that are plainly
at variance with such "literal" views.  Given that a theological thinker of
St. Augustine's genius arrived at the views that he did after years of
careful study of the text, it is incumbent upon us to approach the early
chapters of Genesis with far less dogmatism and far more humility and caution
than we often do.

        St. Augustine's interpretations should help us guard against facile
claims about the "literal" meaning of these texts.  We should recognize what
Augustine recognized: namely, the early chapters of Genesis are in fact
complex and do not tender easy, pat answers.  For example, St. Augustine
repeatedly stresses that the six days described in Genesis are not six
successive ordinary days.  They have nothing to do with time.  The days are
repeatedly claimed to be arranged according to causes, order, and logic.
  
        Pope Pius XII's Encyclical "Humani Generis" exhibits a very prudent
approach to the question of the theory of evolution, as well as all
scientific theories.  Both religion and science are founded in truth;
therefore, true religion and true science can never be in contradiction.  He
reprimands those who "imprudently and indiscreetly hold that Evolution, WHICH
HAS NOT BEEN FULLY PROVEN EVEN IN THE DOMAIN OF NATURAL SCIENCES, explains
the origin of all this, and audaciously support the monistic and pantheistic
opinion that the world is in continual evolution."

        The salient point here is that the Theory of Evolution is just that,
a theory.  There may be aspects of it that are correct, and other aspects
that are not.  Even scientists do not agree on all points of the theory, and,
like all scientific theories, more and more flaws in it will be discovered as
further data are discovered.

        Science can be looked at more as a process rather than a set of
facts.  For example, the Ptolemaic system was replaced by the Newtonian, the
Newtonian by the Einsteinian.  The 19th-century "Theory of Evolution" has
already been found wanting by the scientific community and is constantly
being revised as biological understanding increases.

        In history, we find that some in religion try to impose rigorously
non-dogmatic aspects of the Faith into science, as in the great debate on
heliocentrism in the 17th century.  Conversely, some scientists try to make
their "theories" contradict religious dogma.  Both approaches are incorrect.

        Here are the pertinent passages from the encyclical.

        "Thus, the teaching of the Church leaves the doctrine of evolution an
open question, as long as it confines its speculations to the development,
from other living matter already in existence [not Darwin's theory of
spontaneous generation, that living matter has come from non-living matter],
of the human body.  In the present state of scientific and theological
opinion, this question may be legitimately canvassed by research, and by
discussion between experts on both sides." (Sec. 1, para. 5-7)

        "It remains for Us now to speak about those questions which, although
they pertain to the positive sciences, are nevertheless more or less
connected with the truths of the Christian faith. In fact, not a few
insistently demand that the Catholic religion take these sciences into
account as much as possible.  This certainly would be praiseworthy in the
case of clearly proved facts; but caution must be used when there is rather
question of hypotheses, having some sort of scientific foundation, in which
the doctrine contained in Sacred Scripture or in Tradition is involved.  If
such conjectural opinions are directly or indirectly opposed to the doctrine
revealed by God, then the demand that they be recognized can in no way be
admitted....

        "For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not
forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and
sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in
both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far
as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent
and living matter -- for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are
immediately created by God.  However this must be done in such a way that the
reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to
evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation
and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of
the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting
authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faithful. 
Some however rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as
if the origin of the human body from preexisting and living matter were
already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered
up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in
the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and
caution in this question."  (Section 36)

        "There are other conjectures, about polygenism (as it is called)
[Darwin's theory that there were many Adams and Eves in the very beginning of
mankind, not just one set of First Parents], which leave the faithful no such
freedom of choice.  Christians cannot lend their support to a theory which
involves the existence, after Adam's time, of some earthly race of men, truly
so called, who were not descended ultimately from him....  It does not appear
how such views can be reconciled with the doctrine of original sin."  (Sec.
3, para. 64-68)

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-14 23:19

>>80
You invented a religion to prove me wrong... I love you.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-17 15:13

Oh you guys... relabeling things to be God in absence of one because you're too scared to use the A word (atheist) to describe yourselves.

*giggle*

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-17 17:11

>>82

This coming from a monkey with viral thought processes.

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Name: AnOnYmOuS 2U 2010-01-06 5:00

holy shit...I almost entirely forgot about this thread...makes me feel nostalgic. :3

Name: AnOnYmOuS 2U 2010-01-06 5:40

Not one of you fully grasped the concept and usage of God. The entire purpose of God (in the form of human) has the purpose of self-awareness that we are human and not anything other than this. Also, applies the role-model idea where a given person has someone to look up to, themselves. The whole purpose of God being forgiving is so that WE are forgiving, the whole purpose of God being all-benevolent is so that we can become all-benevolent. And what does it take? It takes an act of faith, Will, and choice to push your own way through the brier patch and into the clearing.

Why did Descaretes have it backwards with the universe being mechanical? Because he himself was thinking in mechanical ways and that made everything he did mechanical. However, if I were him, I would have been at odds with myself considering that humans and machines are not the same, nor equivalent in any way shape or form. Just to be able to make such comparisons is like a child trying to know something before they experience it for the first time...it's not the same...but if you believe it is...it will become that way for you...hence...confabulation...and then self-delusion and self-loathing...cause you believe yourself incapable of keeping up with the grandeur and perfection of a mechanical device. This is the most hilarious concept I've ever run across.

for some, good and evil exist in a descending manor.

NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR:
person does good = expectation; person does bad = evil.

DIVINE HUMAN BEHAVIOR:
person does bad = normal human behavior; person does good = divine human behavior

It's fine if you make a mistake, now, if you learn from that mistake and others like it...what value is that mistake from that which you have truly gained your wisdom? Priceless.

Sometimes, I honestly feel sorry for people that punish themselves for loathing themselves without realizing that's what they are really doing and then they punish others around them (cause they do it with themselves) and push people away making themselves lonely, powerful, absolute, and invulnerable to attack, pain, and fear. I would be an advocate for the damned, but I'm a little busy with my own damned soul...redemption is a bitch. :3

"If at first you don't succeed..."
should have had an exception: if you try one way and it doesn't work, try something else...repeating the same action and expecting a different result
(same action =/= different reaction)

sorry.

Also, here is some new logic for you fellas to choke down with astro-glide. :3

What you do brings you all that you are getting; therefore, what you aren't doing will bring you all that you aren't getting.

see the difference? So, what you want is what you don't already have. Therefore, you'll need to do evil (what you don't like) to get what you want -good(to you)- (what you do like).

Also, "it exists, find out where; it is right, find out how; it is good, find out why." What and Who are nouns (person, place, thing) that corresponds to the physical plane of shapes and can be simply observed, the others are a little bit more elusive.

And now, I'll leave you to your thoughts...cause I'm getting a blow job right now and I'd like to look her in the eyes when she swallows my gift to her. :3

Name: AnOnYmOuS 2U 2010-01-07 3:29

I love it when nobody argues back...it means I'm right. If there were an argument, it means I have to learn another point of view which means I'm wrong at the start, and afterwords I gain perspective...

got perspective?

Name: AnOnYmOuS 2U 2010-01-07 6:21

also, "possession is nine-tenths of the law."
Knowledge insinuates possession, "To know is to have; to have is to hold."

But knowledge being intangible and invisible cannot be held, therefore it becomes intellectual property under homesteader's or squater's law which states, "If a person who owns the property is neglectful and a second person comes along and uses that property productively repeatedly, the second person becomes the rightful owner of said property."

So...yeah, if you think what is said in a conversation over coffee is trademarked or copywritten...think again, if you advertise property it will be possessed by those in earshot. :3

Also, this leads to the subject of how a person uses their mind and body. If the same can apply to property, it can apply anywhere. The best way to use your property without saying you own it is to enforce the belief that a person owns themselves as their own piece of property. In the end, they will enslave themselves by thinking themselves free.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free." -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

Now ask yourselves this very important question, "When a slave seeks freedom he will fight to his death to be free; with a man who is already free, what does he do to get what he already has?

And now, I have fully possessed you because you possess my understandings. What will you do with what you possess? :3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-07 6:27

And to finalize this little excerpt,
"Please allow me to introduce myself.
I'm a man of wealth and taste.
I've been around for a long long year stolen many man's soul and faith.
I was around when Jesus Christ had His moment of doubt and pain.
Made damn sure that Pilate washed his hands and sealed His fate.
Pleased to meet you hope you guess my name.
But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game."
--The Rolling Stones

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-07 10:39

SAGE FRORBULLSHIT

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-07 12:52

AnOnYmOuS 2U is why philosophy sucks.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-07 18:49

Anonymous 2u, you need psychiatric help. In fact, I think we all do after having read this thread.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-08 1:48

>>92
and yet you will not seek it, amirite? Let me guess...there is no need to cure you of your sanity, amirite?

Interesting developments...:3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-08 15:26

>>91
I'm sorry, I guess asking you to use their brain is asking too much. I'll keep that in mind. :3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-08 15:27

>>92
Thanks for reaffirming the fact that I am not your side of sanity, which means I'll be getting all the things you are not. :3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-08 20:04

I'm a giant faggot. :3

Name: EvolutionaryMind 2010-01-08 21:35

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Name: AnOnYmOuS 2U 2010-01-08 23:35

>>97
thanks for sharing that little tid bit about yourself with us...I'm sure. :3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-09 1:57

100 GET

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-09 4:10

>>100
101 GET. :3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-13 18:06

>>11
 i lold

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-16 23:01

And as for science and religion not contradicting, that is true. Often times, it is the perspective on either of the two, especially when a contradiction is recognized, that one of two things is not equal, either the religious material is incorrect, or the point of view on the subject matter is not correct. In science, if subjective observations are used instead of objective, the result is often times similar; bias. :/

And all bias is a sure-fire sign of the devil...I mean ego. :3

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-17 16:01

Bull shit!
Fake science does not contradict religion wile true science does. Fake religion pretends it is not opposed to science, while true religion burns scientists or hangs them.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 1:43

>>104
It's funny, it almost sounds like what you're saying is, "blah, blah, blah, my opinion = fact, and I'm a stupid dumb-shit."

Thank you for point that "fact" out. :3

saying something is fake, means that something would have to be real. The problem is, who and what distinguishes which is which? You? Someone who is against religion and supposedly for science? Please, that's bias, and unscientific as it is entirely subjective meaning it is indeed your fucking opinion, which, btw, I shall tell you here and now amounts to bupkiss. :3

TL;DR It is my opinion that opinions are bullshit. :3
also, die in a fire. :/

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 1:46

>>105
This.

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-18 8:11

>>105
true = serious

Go fuck your priest

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-19 3:49

>>107
really, true = serious for you, eh?

...yeah, how's them ulcers working out for ya? :/

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-19 6:36

How was with your priest?

Name: Anonymous 2010-01-19 9:15

>>109
considering that I'm my own priest, pretty damn well, thank you. And you? :3

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