It's a university lecture on the subject. Its kinda long, but watch it anyway. Trust me.
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Anonymous2006-11-16 15:24
Intelligent Evolution!!!!
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Anonymous2006-11-16 17:57
Retarded Design!!!!
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Anonymous2006-11-16 22:20
people that even discuss this issue are about as stupid as the people that belive in ID
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Anonymous2006-11-17 4:36
people who think ID is 100% total bunk obviously have never taken any kind of biological science course higher than the bare minimum required to graduate HS / undergrad.
You want to tell me that random chance happenings gave rise to mutiple overwhelmingly complex, highly organized interdependent systems whose sum result is life as we know it?
... I suppose stranger things have happened... oh no, wait. It hasn't.
You want to tell me that random chance happenings gave rise to mutiple overwhelmingly complex, highly organized interdependent systems whose sum result is life as we know it?
Yes! Aren't logic and science beautiful?
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Anonymous2006-11-17 11:57
>>10
I havent got anything against intelligent design, but to say it can't happen by the natural order of how it all came together? There is not much a way for anyone to perform a feat like putting together a solar system and putting lifeforms all over it, this intelligent design thing sounds more like coyly guised creationism that anything serious.
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Anonymous2006-11-17 12:27
aww man it is all like a noodly appendage and shit. this is not a debate. sometimes things get designed other things happen. i fear death because i think consciousness is fleeting. but there is no god, is there?
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Anonymous2006-11-17 12:28
>>10
its not 100% bunk but the reason you gave dosnt hold any water.
i have a BA in microbiology and pluging away at a masters also.
And I suppose "Unknown power/deity created life through unknown, unobservable means without leaving behind evidence" counts as a scientific theory for you. Gb24thgrade.
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Anonymous2006-11-17 15:25
>>16
i think people like this confuse ID as a concept, and ID as the bible states it. for the bible version i would agree its 100% bunk, im forced to belive this, if i questioned its validity i would have to question the basis of science as a whole.
the concept, however, can include evolution and other scientific theorys. i see no reason why god cant include evolution in his "plan" or why god even needs a plan.
but whether or not it's god's plan (c), has nothing to do with science, that's a matter of belief. The problem is the ID retards are trying to say "GOD CREATED THE WORLD BECAUSE THINGS WORK THE WAY THEY DO! => GOD EXISTS"
or the other way around, something like that anyways.
and to the guy who's all "omg, could nature really create something this complex?!?!" yes.
why wouldn't it? simply because something is of a level of complexity which most of us cannot comprehend, does not mean it's impossible, or must necessarily be made by god, it simply means it's complex. I think you give too little credit to mother nature when you give god the honour of our complexity.
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Anonymous2006-11-17 18:11
"Intelligent design", as in the consequence of natural selection. The "stupid design" gets killed, and the not-stupid survives. OMG.
>>13
Creationism and Intelligent Design may seem similiar, but one implies the explicit existance of one divine, omnipotent being, where as the other makes no such assumption. For all intents and purposes, the time and effort required by the ... whatevers who designed "life" may be equiviliant to us say... creating an ant farm... the complixity differs in several magnitudes, I know. But the parallel is there.
>>15
If you don't beleive it to be 100% bunk, then my statement obviously doesn't apply to you.
>>17
Hi, that fits Creationism more than ID. Might want to actually go through some of the materials from their respective representative organizations before making yourself appear stupider, k?
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Anonymous2006-11-18 6:15
Religion, creationism and creationists = ▄█▀ █■█ █ ▀█▀
>>24
ID is '100% bunk' because it's a cop-out, it basically says 'the current state of the universe is too complex, therefore it must have been designed by something'. Whichever way you look at it, that's just not science. And creationism doesn't specifically require omnipotence at all; if you don't see that ID is basically an argument for creationism (although a horribly flawed one), then you're just deluding yourself.
why would one argue for ID if not to use it as an argument that god exists?
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Anonymous2006-11-18 11:47
>>21-24 and >>26-27 missed the point: religion is bullshit.
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Anonymous2006-11-18 14:34
Is anyone really still seriously pushing ID anymore? I hadn't heard about it for a few months and figured it'd died out, seeing as it's become a laughingstock and all.
You'd be surprised how many people are still pushing to have it in school textbooks, etc. The problem is that to Joe Average, both are equally valid theories.
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Anonymous2006-11-18 19:13
Prove god exists and you will be permitted the honour of sucking my dick.
K go!
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Anonymous2006-11-19 3:48
The people who came up with this thing obviously haven't considered many possibilities of exact what could have feasibly happened, saying since the 'universe' which we find ourselves existing in is complex=was designed by a sentient or some sort of super sentient being is not only being vague but it basically makes it sound like its just a fancy name for creationism and a vie for cultist bastards of the church to try and have their backwards and counter evolutionary ways accepted still in this modern world which has proven that all of their claims are bullshit long ago and that anyone with even half a mind can spot and completely disregard a cultist from a mile away.
This is all that is possible as far as we know it, for the entirety of existance to be created by 'intelligence' isn't the case, however this doesn't rule out the possibility that at one point something or someone who we have no contact with may have done something with our planet, none of could every truly know what that might have been without actually having been there when it happened, we can only make stupid guesses and even putting aside that, all we're really left with are more crazy ass cult worshipping bastards who call themselves 'scientologists'.
You know, I would have hoped that people in this day and age would be able to realize that trying to figure out how we got here is no where near as important as how in the hell we're exactly going to get off this rock, but if you're going to wonder about the past why look at Earth, people already have plenty of claims about the situation of the past here, but what the hell happened next door over at Mars, looks like a dead planet to me, who knows how long ago it was or what happened, but it would appear something did, of course we'll never even have a clue unless we can get there.
So when the sun explodes, or we run out of fossil fuels to power our hundred year old technological dinosaurs or when the idiots nuke up the place bathing the atmosphere in a stifling amount of background radiation, any sentients who find our planetafterwards can know, we spent all our time fighting each other while making up ass backwards and retarded theories about what happened before we got here the entire time instead of doing anything at all, these visitors will be able to move on konwing there is quite nothing special to see here, which is a good thing for them I'd imagine as it means one less planet to have to dig through in hopes of finding anything of real value.
In closing, it doesn't matter what anyone could try and assume about what could have happened, because all such things are all too easily written off with the explanations of chance and coincidence, which are of course key values we hold dear in our civilization. Because, surely survival and weening ourselves of shit technology and beliefs aren't any of those values.
OK, Suppose, that the universe is intelligently designed. What are the consequences of this?
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Anonymous2006-11-20 4:04
>>37
It would mean Christians have the amazing ability to alter the nature of the universe simply by believing in something. I guess the pope would be Haruhi or something, lol.
If, and I emphasize the if, the universe is intelligently designed by some other being(s), then it would stand to reason that each and every little nook and cranny of the universe follows some type of logic, just waiting to be understood.
It would be as if we were presented with a finished product to reverse engineer. If we accomplish that, then we'd theoritically be capable of at least manipulating some aspects of these designs and produce results that may be currently unimaginable.
To use a loose example, it would be as if someone programmed a sentient AI capable of learning independently. If that AI realizes that it is an artificial construct that was designed by another... and somehow manages to learn to code, that AI can technically re-write itself to whatever form it wishes.
... sounds pretty sci-fi... then again, airplanes were once considered lunacy.