If you were in charge of Education

What would you change about pre-college schooling?  For example, what classes would you offer prior to college?

Philosophy
Sociology
Game theory
Physics
Business management
Stock market/real estate
Calculus
Computer hardware
Programming
Electronics
Logic
Study techniques
Vocabulary
Chaos theory
Quantum physics
Overview of everything in existence

I think it is just fine. Maybe a patriotism class should be added.

Pre-college? As in high-school? Or between high-school and college?

LOGIC LOGIC LOGIC.

High schoolers just aren't learning how to use critical thinking, and that's why America is fucked up right now.  (I don't know about other countries.)  Also, from the list, Calculus and Physics.  And maybe Philosophy.  And most of the rest as electives.

Algebra should be taught sooner. There is no reason that kids shouldn't start learning algrebra in 5th grade. That leaves much more room for a variety of math.

More stringent high school testing, they're just going to flunk out anyways so instead of wasting tax dollars and runing other kids learning then just kick em off to a trade school so they can learn to pump gas.

IF I WERE IN CHARGE OF EDUCATION I'D KICK YOUR ASS

I would fix computing classes so they actually teach you stuff about computers instead of just providing MS Office training.

>>8
truth

>>4
I would expand logic into a class on introducing discrete math at the high school level.  Not compulsory but 'highly recommended' for students planning on doing any science, math or engineering degree.  Too many kids going into university thinking CS = programming.

>>6
Marry me.

>>8
You too.

I am in high school and we already have
Physics
Business management
Stock market/real estate
Calculus
Computer hardware
Programming
Study techniques

These are the ones i know we have FOR SURE, not sure about others. Don't American schools have those?

Here's what I'd (try to) do/change:

Teacher's Unions reform. 

laws involving better pay and minimal requirements, in particular for HISTORY teachers.  Too often, it's the Coach who teaches you the really, really relevant death of Crispus Attucks.  You should spend as much time on World History as you do on US history. 

I think that if philosophy were done right at a high school level, it would provide an excellent alternative to the English courses that teenagers love to hate.  It might have a greater social benefit in the long term, as well (critical thinking, advancing adolescent thought beyond nihilism).

United States citizens suck at geography.  On an unmarked political map of the world, you should, at some point, be tested on the following:

North America: know which one is Canada, which one is the US, and which one is Mexico (know your ass from a hole in the ground).  Seriously.  People on Jaywalking....
Europe: Identify each country by its borders, give its capital, and tell me a little something about it.  (I admit I would have to study for Eastern Europe, but that's the fun thing about bitching about education when you're an adult-you don't have to put up with the crap yourself).
Australia, Antarctica & Russia: know your ass from a hole in the ground: i.e. identify them.  Be able to tell me a little bit about them (the fact that there are science claims on certain bits of Antarctica, etc)
South America: know each country, which one/s speak Portuguese as opposed to Spanish.
Africa: Bix Nood.  Just be able to tell me which one South Africa is (lol Public School), which one's Egypt, and where the Sahara is (all them North African countries)

And then there's tech.  How shall we compete with Europe and Japan?  I think >>8 is absolutely right.  I'm not too worried about the triumvirate of physics, chem and calc.  They're there for the kids who want them, but the problem is to get HS level teachers into those areas. 

Another thing which no one has touched on is the fact that public schools have been made to shoulder exponentially more parental responsibilities over the years.  TAKE the money from those programs, INVEST in BETTER TEACHERS, and you'll have money left over for precious football.  It really is all about the teachers.  That's my sweeping generalization of the day.

Lastly, licensure and legal matters are so stringent nowadays.  The person who knows their shit should be the one to teach.

>>13
Africa: Bix Nood

I laughed out loud for real when I read this. It's 0:53 and my parents are asleep. LOL.

>>13
I'd include Japan with Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Nagoya, and Sapporo at least, plus a map of Tokyo with Shibuya outlined. This is basic education for waps.

I'd start teaching The Ascent of Man by Jacob Bronowski in all high schools. I'd also suggest that people who don't want to learn be sent in to some sort of apprenticeship after core classes. I also think that they should start talking more about the connectivity of different areas. I've heard a lot of people complain about having to take math and science courses in high school, which is completely ridiculous.

I would personally like to see more psychology, sociology, economics, and higher geometry courses earlier in high school. We don't get the first three until junior year, and most people can't take them because of scheduling and such.

And what is with this manga/graphic novel thing in libraries? My library has few of the Classics or science (not fiction) novels and P1 computers that are rarely up to running the internet, and they give us comics?

Teaching people who don't want to learn makes no sense... unless you want to make them submit to authority.

Minors are not entitled to the same set of rights that adults are.

>>16
LOL at sociology. "I knew sociology wasn't for me when the professor said that violence was never the answer." Otherwise, I completely agree. Math and science are our physical understanding of the universe. It's not like you need to demand every kid learn calculus. A full course on linear algebra would be a fine replacement. You could even have courses on kinematics or cellular automata. I see no reason why by 6th grade, kids can's start learning algebra. I hade to know my multiplication tables by 4th grade. And one year should be plenty of time to teach mixed math operations. Libraries could do for some scientific journal subscriptions instead of comics. I supose if you want to get more kids to read then sure. But a large selection of manga is not needed for that. I like monga, but I also like more stimulating reading like the Illiad.

>>18
Truth. Minors get their rights from their guardian, who gets their rights from the state.

>>19
Truth. Minors get their rights from their guardian, who gets their rights from the state.

Rousseau motherfucker, do you read him? The state obtains its authority from the consent of the governed, who surrender or limit some of their natural rights in order to establish a stable society. "We the People" and all that.

>>20
not that the people have much of a choice. olololol

>>20
Got me there. At least this is suposed to be true in a few states.

>>20
Is that from The Social Contract? Part of Penguin's Great Ideas series of books?

I read the Nietzsche one. It rocked.
<Inst>

(this page of ranting is all assuming I could file a Sexual harassment suit against Bill Gates at all times and I basically have an endless pile of money and resources to go on. If you're wondering where I'm getting all my rant fodder from I work in a library that's not too far from the middle and highschool. I know what these little retards aren't learning.)

Start from the beginning and work our way up.

For starters. We don't give little kids enough credit. The reason why kids grow up to hate learning and school is because we sit them in a classroom and expect them to just hang out and be calm for 3/4 hour bursts while we teach them the same four things over and over again for the first three or four years of their schooling. There's no fucking reason why it took my teachers an hour a day for two years to teach me cursive, which is a subject we don't even need.

Kids should get electives from the first grade on. They already get the occasional suzuki class but I think we should go a little big further. Give the kids an hour at the end of the day,two or three days a week to pick subjects they're interested in. They can be computers, or animals, or more maths or history or whatever. The classes don't have to last more than a quarter so they can mix things up and experiment, or stick with what they've fallen in love with. We basically need to make it seem more voluntary and less like a chore they're doing because mommy says so.

All schools with bell scheduling get bombed. End of story. That was a stupid idea and nobody can properly learn shit in 45 minutes a day, especially since 20mins of that time is spent trying to get the class to calm the fuck down at the beginning and end of the period. We're block scheduling from here on out. No less than two hours will be dedicated to a subject so people can actually get into it instead of a little reading and handing out an assignment. These two hour classes will be separated with NICE LEASURELY FIFTEEN MINUTE BREAKS that actually allow the kids to stretch their legs and get their books from their lockers so the teachers can make their ridiculous binder demands without breaking the kids backs or resorting to rolling backpacks. (Why? Because I don't like them.) I had a teacher that grew up in China that would tell us every day that she could understand why our schools were in such a shitty situation because we never got any time to decompress in between classes.

Yeah, kids learn algebra in the fifth or sixth grade. Absolutely no reason why they shouldn't, and while we're at it let's stop teaching fourth and fifth graders the names of all the capitals like that's important. It's a pain in the ass for a year of their lives and they forget it a week after the test. Let's just replace all that frivolous education with world governments and possibly current events.

I'm completely revamping the honors program. Where I went to school the education was either remedial or college level. I'm completely abolishing all of that for the most part. From now on we're taking a cue from my local community college. From the seventh grade up there's English 1,2,3,4,5 (etc...) and in May there's tests for each of these. If a kid decided to take a test and gets an 80% or above on all the English 1&2 exams then he gets the joy of English 3. Just about anything can be tested upwards with the exception of a few senior level classes just to make sure the kid isn't playing the lazy genius card. The tests are optional and if you don't take them you just go for the classes in order. This way nobody's wasting space in a class that they don't need to learn.

I doubt all this would pan out in reality though.

>>24
>I doubt all this would pan out in reality though.

This touches on another reason why the U.S. public school system is so fucked up: politics. Public schools, being government institutions, get swept up in the game of "please the constituents" that most politicians like to play. This ensures that schools are perpetually mired in some sort of difficulty--budget, union, whatnot--and that the problem almost never is really fixed, because the people demand quick and easy fixes and their representatives give them these Band-Aid solutions.

To be clear, I'm blaming everyone, not just politicians. We the people need to demand real reform, even if it's potentially painful or time-consuming. To give an example, my state of California established an exit test several years ago. Passing it is supposed to be required for graduation. Problem is, the requirement's been repeatedly deferred because parents whined that their little Johnny wasn't passing the test. I've taken it, and let me tell you, the test is so goddamn easy a fucking dog could pass it. Hell, I think some first-graders could pull it off. And there are high school seniors who can't?! That, my friend, is a personal failure, not a failure of the system. This is further backed up by the fact that this year, something around 85% of incoming seniors have so far passed the test. The parents of the 15% that didn't, though, are probably going to blame the teachers, schools, government, and everyone except themselves and their children, and go whine to the Legislature, which will most likely delay the requirement again. Sigh.

In high school I would add more arts.  Also agree with the person who said he would teach kids how to use a computer in "computer" class, not just MSword

>>24
I agree with the direction you set but some things, I think are impractical.

Why give kids electives?  Seriously, what's the benefit of that?  Kids are stupid and they don't know what they want.  At that age, they should be forced to go through all the 'basic' stuff so they get all of that set.  Yes, some of the stuff will be extremely boring for most of the class but it's needed.  If kids don't learn to endure at that age, it'll be that much harder for them to learn to at an older age.

We had 75 minute periods in school and I think that was just at our limits.  Two bloody hours of class time is hard enough in university, where students are serious caue they're paying money out of their pockets, nevermind in highschool and younger.  Definitely need more than 45 minutes though.

Agree with the rest of the stuff you suggested though.  But I seriously disagree with the electives stuff at such a young age.  Kids don't know what they want.  And all the elective systems I've been in tend to be cumulative, ie. year 3 of subject x requires year 2 and year 1.  So that means if you suddenly decide to change interests, you're screwed.

>>27
I agree also with the majority of points from >>24, but I'll add my $0.02.  I agree with >>27 that First Grade is too early for electives.  I'd say around 6th or 7th.  Give the kids a chance to figure out what they like first.  45 minute classes are bullshit, but so are 2 hour classes (for kids that young).  Hour and a half.  Worked wonders at my block-scheduled high school.  As for testing, please please just make testing effective.  I wouldn't really know how to make testing effective, but there are people who would.  Oh, make all tests for each class cumulative.  Cumulative testing is more effective not noly in assessing what the kids know, but it's better at actually making the kids fucking learn!  And for god's sake, make graduation tests harder.  A retarded cat could pass the Georgia Graduation Test.

Computer Lib/Dream Machines.
Dreaming is nice, but nothing will ever change.

NECROMANCY!

Most kids are coming out of school are practically illiterate and totally ignorant of history and the world outside of mainstream pop culture. Instead, as OP suggests, of trying to teach more advanced courses (in an inevitably dumbed down way) that will only benefit the top 10% of students, public schooling should focus on providing solid foundations for further study, and making the average graduate not look like an ignorant idiot.

I do think "logic" would be a good idea though, going through all the logical fallacies people use every day, and teaching people how to tell a good argument from a bad one. There should be a real history of Western Civilisation taught, instead of just a multi-year long MLK wankfest. Grammar should never stop being taught. How often do you see people using "double negatives" for negative statements, and not knowing the difference between "there", "their" and "they're"? Get rid of the "soft subjects" the dumb kids all take (because they are easy), and make sure they at least leave school with literacy in English, and a knowledge of history and georgraphy. Calculus is in fact better left until college so it can be taught in a more rigorous way (from its foundations in analysis) to more gifted students. 85% of kids will never need to use calculus once they leave school, yet most of them still struggle with basic arithemetic and the understanding of basic concepts such as probabilities and ratios. And how about actually teaching math in an intuitive way, instead of just giving kids formulas and not telling them where they come from? I never saw a single "proof" in math class at my school. How about going back to teaching from Euclid's Elements, which builds everything up logically and intuitively from axioms?

A nice essay here on math education. Even though I don't really agree with everything in it.

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

>>33
What a neat read. Thanks anon!

I think the author is missing an important point though. The boring parts of math, memorization and organization and whatnot are stressed not for math's sake but for their own. It's important to teach organization and how to follow instructions. In fact, that's the main reason math is taught to children in the first place.

He (Lockhart) also doesn't offer up a realistic, workable alternative. I guess that's why it's only a "lament". But for all his whining, students that have a natural talent and passion for math will study it anyway. So I don't really see what his objections are other than "boo hoo, everyone thinks that real math is boring when it's not."

Still, a worthy read.

And he was absolutely right about high school geometry. That shit sucks.

American schools don't teach anything as it is. There are many illiterate high school graduates who can't locate America on a map and have no idea who the people on the currency they use are. This is much bigger problem than you think.

>>35
citation plz

>>36

Are you blind? Just take a stroll at the mall, ride the city bus, or browse MySpace to see how ignorant and sinful America is.

I would make monetary policy required for all high school curricula.

Then I would get assassinated by the illuminati hitmen.

Philosophy, and nothing else.

>>37

Oh, they teach. Americans just don't listen!