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using

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 20:59

chicken with awful. I'll probably just use sqlite for the data storage for now. Where should we host the revision control?

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 21:04

pastebin

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 21:04

SQL is harmfl

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 21:10

>>2
how does that work?

It will probably be around 600 lines (a generous bound) after using awful

>>3
I know. We can replace it later. Let's just get something that works and doesn't break for now.

Name: not OP !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-28 22:04

>>1,4-9999
http://www.vps.me/free-vps
anyone got any others?

Then we combine it with one of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_delivery_network#Free_CDNs to lower the CPU & Bandwidth on the actual VPS.

What distributed file system do you want to implement? OpenAFS?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_distributed_file_systems

I hope we are using Fossil as the DRCS. And yes I am helping. Even though we can make a quick one with synchronet.

>>2
You kid. They track that IPs and users in Pastebin.

>>3
Indeed, but SQLite is awesome. Tell me another RDBMS you know that is small, portable, and scritable to be self maintained?

Name: not OP !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-28 22:15

NVM, let's use Coral for the CDN:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Content_Distribution_Network
http://www.coralcdn.org/

You guys know another others you want to implement?

Trying to understand this, but I am still not getting it:
http://codeen.cs.princeton.edu/

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 22:36

>>5
I was planning hosting the source as git and host it from my own machine as a hidden service. We can always move it elsewhere later.

Name: not OP !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-28 22:50

>>7
Extremely bad idea, unless you to not mind DDoS at your local modem and ISP.

I need to find what P2P FS to use. I am just too drowsy from lack of sleep. See if you can decide one with use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer#File-sharing_networks

This sounds awesome, I need to read more on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_P2P_networks

Also make a Hash.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 23:24

>>8
Yeah, it would be just be a temporary thing until someone organized something better.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 23:29

>>11 checked

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 23:29

check 'em

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-28 23:29

>>11 excellent

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 4:36

>>8
Is it possible to ddos a tor service?

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 4:43

>>13
Easily, if you can add your own, faulty nodes.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 4:44

>>14
I don't follow

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 4:46

It seems like the nodes leading up to you would share the burden in the ddos. And not all of the junk requests would make it to you. I guess that accomplishes the purpose of keeping genuine requesters from getting to your service. But your server wont be as overloaded.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 4:56

>>15
Simple. Let's say a node is supposed to do the following:

- broadcast itself to other nodes, an initial pooling of which is gathered somehow, but that involves asking other nodes for peers
- accept incoming connections, either from nodes or from outside computers
- forward those connections to other nodes until a limit is hit or the destination is reached or some other constraint

If you can add faulty nodes, you could do something like
- ignore protocol and aggressively seek out every possible node as your initial pool, then reconnect
- to every node in your pool, `forward' a faked connection with a timeout twenty orders of magnitude higher than it should be
- endlessly shuttle messages from one faulty node back to another faulty node, hoping to disrupt as many real nodes as possible while only sacrificing two of your nodes
- when asked for peers, return only fellow faulty nodes, but refuse all incoming connections, hoping to trick the network into creating what it sees as a well-distributed mesh, but is actually a series of bottlenecks
- etc

To some extent, good protocol design will minimize the impact of this, but if you have enough resources you could overwhelm `key' points of the network and defeat byzantine fault tolerance.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 4:59

>>17
I'm sure there are lots of ways to ddos the tor network itself. I was thinking of the server hosting the hidden service.

Name: >>18 2013-07-29 5:01

s/ddos/generally fuck around with/

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 5:02

>>18
Ah, I see your question now.  Well, a traditional (D)DOS would probably do something, but it would probably be restricted, effectively, to the number of nodes that have that server as an immediate peer.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 7:05

>>18
Adolf hitler salutes you :)

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 7:56

salute these dubs

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 7:59

>>22
Γ(・Д・)

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 8:01

>>23
U MENA Γ(・Д・)

Name: not OP !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-29 13:03

What >>18 says requires more resources. The Fact is that you would be running a hidden service with many users form *-chan that will be connecting to, let alone that your packets maybe broken when they get to your git server (intentional or not). Does you modem and ISP have enough resources to handle us all?
That is where I was getting at that you can have a simple DDoS on just requests alone. Tor alone does not read packets, thus you need a router. You can if you like turn the VPS into that router/proxy, but it would be easier to just house the main repository there, and distribute it across, leaving you home connection alone. The last thing you want is your ISP to disconnect  from load an traffic, or worse, call you.

Name: not OP !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-29 13:26

OP, please Hash your responses, to determine it is you who is posting, and make an actual vote. Sample confusion >>9 and >>13.

Have you decided on the P2P FS or distributed FS we will use? OS has to be a minimal FreeBSD or debian (unless you know of a smaller one we can deploy).

Unless you want to make the VPS a proxy. And use Fossil, git is huge (10.2MB) and structurally complex (built of C, shell scripts, Perl). Although Mercurial, Monotone, and CVS defeat in in size.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-29 23:41

>>25
I think it'll be fine for now. This isn't a popular board and it's a subset of that who are also willing to move.

>>26
>>9 and >>13 are me. Sorry, I don't feel like adopting a tripcode. Just assume I'm an adversary. I think you are further ahead on the planning than anyone else, so feel free to do what you want and we can just adapt. I'm still getting familiar with awful. I'm hoping I don't discover it's a piece of crap, but it looks good so far.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 0:01

Why don't you just host it on the same machine you're host the board itself?

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 0:09

also instead of hosting the revision control itself, just host a snapshot of the fossil repository that you've fossil scrubbed.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 1:03

[b]USING MY ANUS![/b]

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 1:04

FUCK!

Name: sleepster !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-30 1:38

>>27
Ok, then have you called your ISP about it? Like:
"Hey, with the contract I have with you guys, can I host my own server, and have lots of people connect from around world?"
"Will you be able to handle the load?"
"I'd estimate 1k users, making at the least 5Mb/s requests, then slow down from there."

If you don't make a trip code it will make it harder to analyse who is saying what. But Ok. Looks like Freenet is the way to go for a true anonymous communication. Bad part: Java.

>>28
That is the point of why we would use FreeBSD Jails or Debian SELinux, to also have a test bed, maybe even some users to maintain the VPS. However, if you know of any other micro OS we can use, that at the least OpenSSH can be implemented, that would be swell. We only have 5 GB of disk space to work with, so things will be pretty tight. mfsBSD, RTLinux? 6000MHz~ is going to hurt.

>>29
That is the exact point why I want to use Fossil. It is even easier to check out the database too.

>>30,31
Checked already:
http://cactirevolution.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/anus-a-methodology-for-the-visualization-of-operating-systems/

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 2:48

>>32
Wow, thanks for organizing this. I'm surprised to get this much commitment so early. I don't think size will be an issue. All of /prog/ compresses to 50 MB. Unless we get ddosed, quantity of traffic wont be much either.

If we go ahead with chicken, it requires a runtime library that is 3.6 MB on my system. The egg libraries written in scheme that compile to c will contribute some size as well, but I can't see it being that much more. Then there's the current plan for sqlite, which wont contribute very much.

The constraint of writing it in scheme is a pain, but it's a tribute to the board. Out of principle, it needs to be written in an academic or esoteric language.

We would have the highest chance of retention of posters if the site is accessible, so it would be ideal if it was available on a server via normal http(s). I was thinking of going to amazon s3, like the author of 190chan, but their terms of use scared me. Freenet would be effective though, assuming we all have the time/care to install it.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 9:31

why the fuck are i2p and freenet using java

don't they know of the massive security hole they just created by using java?

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 9:59

>>27
My impression of awful was that it was pretty good, practical even, compared to the PLT server which focuses too much on making some stateless language thing. When I tried it out it seemed to allow for continuation-based sessioning even though I didn't see any mention of the repercussions of this in the documentation.

Name: gonna _wait !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-30 11:22

>>33
It is going to take me sometime, since I have to buy in cash a prepaid phone, and set up the contract. Once the Scheme code is ready, someone can make a Sourceforge account to host the repository. And no, you are thinking of just the posts, and forgot about the MySQL server, Apache server, PHP VM, Cloudflare PHP settings, etc.. At the least Fossil takes care of the http server along with the repository:
http://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/trunk/www/selfhost.wiki

The only issue that I will have is the partitioning scheme. I hope with the 4 primary ZFS partitions I won't have trouble resizing. We nee at the least one to be the repository, another the test bed. Compiling is going to take an eternity on it.

And Freenet has to be installed for communication, and another mean of hosting the service.

>>34
http://www.i2p2.de/i2cp
I'd assume portability, in a heavily restricted environment. And make a mini VM to separate the client from the router.
https://freenetproject.org/faq.html#why-java
These guys is because that is all they knew. But they do not mind having an implementation on another language.

>>35
Thanks for first actual contribution.

Name: gonna _wait !r0uZ0MVANc!bMsnEeHw7pi9JJ/ 2013-07-30 11:31

Here is nice ancient thread:
https://tails.boum.org/forum/Is_it_time_for_Tails_to_drop_i2p__63__/

Should we use Tails?

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 11:41

>>36
Umm, I hope you aren't actually going to spend money on /prog/. It isn't necessary.

>>37
My original plan was to use one of my dying laptops, take out the hard drive and stick in a 4GB usb drive, have it run a live debian, and then install tor and the server onto a second writable partition of the drive, and run it as a hidden service.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 11:59

>>38
In order to activate your server you also need to have a mobile phone number as an SMS message will be sent to confirm your identity.
Why I need the prepaid phone. I still need it anyway for other things in the future. And you would be paying your electric bill if you use your laptop. Did you call your ISP to make sure? (talking from experience)
Looks like we are stuck with debian:
http://www.vps.me/order/free-vps
Step 2 Configure
Unless anyone else here knows of better option than this.

Name: Anonymous 2013-07-30 13:10

>>39
There are hundreds of VPSes that cost 5$/month and have upward of 80% uptime (good enough). Find one hosted in N. Korea or Iran or some country extremely hostile to yours (might be hard for some place like Canada) and go crazy.

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