Freelancing in website development

Hey, guys. I'm a programmer who uses mostly c++. However, I have done a study of the web design programs such as PhP and Javascript. Even dabbled in SQL. Not an expert in it, but I get the concepts and will mainly just need to review it until I have the common stuff in my head. I looked over several freelancing sites. I'm a bit overwhelmed, of course, of what they ask. Though talking with a friend, he says it's not as hard as it looks. A lot of people ask for plugins, web designs, and adding ecommerces.

As a programmer, how hard is any of this stuff is and how does the freelance process usually work?

Freelance pay is shit, get a day job. Seriously.

Hard to get a programming job when you have no professional use of it and everyone wants a degree.

You haven't learned formal systems analysis or learned system modelling tools? I wouldn't say it's hard but you really need to learn a bit about the process of designing systems because it is difficult to make non-trivial changes without this understanding.

Never knew it was under those terms, actually. That's why I came here.

>>5
YHBT

>>5
Take the effort this book and you will have the theory you need to design and study pretty much any system. It is not about web design, it is about general systems analysis.
http://yourdon.com/strucanalysis/wiki/index.php/Table_of_Contents

>>7

Read the first three chapters. Very good so far. Got any other good books to recommend? I got like a university library filled with computer science books. It's so overwhelming, I never know what to pick up and read.

>>7
"General System Analysis"? Fuck off with your abstract bullshit.

Freelance web programmer/developer here.

First off, most of the shit you are going to encounter is simple Wordpress websites.  I just make $500 off of a quick Wordpress site.  My work involved FTPing a Wordpress installation, a quick configuration, then a lot of HTML/CSS and image uploads.  Any extra functionality was provided by plugins other people wrote.  It took me about 8 hours to do this. 

To get started, just install a WAMP/MAMP/XAMPP/whatever localhost server on your computer and start messing around with Wordpress.  It's easy as fuck and gets a lot of the foundation right.  Wordpress is built off PHP, so you know it's shit.  Get your HTML/CSS tight and at least know how to use Javascript/jQuery.  Know how to do basic image manipulation with GIMP or Photoshop (pirate that shit, nigga). MySQL is best handled by phpMyAdmin, and you really don't need to be doing command line stuff (you can still do this in phpMyAdmin).

The coding is the easy part, and most gigs will not require anything more than rudimentary programming concepts.  Actually, you should avoid any fancy shit you learned with C++.  The only difficult part is getting clients.  There's a glut of people who have much more sales experience and a huge portfolio to shop around.  There are also thousands of companies that actively hunt down clients for jobs.  That's your competition.  If you don't have any real-world work to show, make your own sites and do the best you can.  Never work for free to build a portfolio.

eCommerce is generally drudgery, and you'll have to put up with it at some time in your career.  What makes it worthwhile is most clients that want to do this have money and are willing to spend.  WooCommerce for Wordpress is easy enough to figure out.

For a general overview, this dude nails the important points:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvpfTXBXw7w

For the most part, you're going to be struggling until you land some bigger clients.  Work for other companies if you want the lowdown on how the whole process works.  Work for developers who have too much work to handle.  Go door-to-door if you have to.  Web development is a broad field, so you can be doing HTML newsletters for one client and a customized ecommerce site for another.

Where the fuck do you get such gullible clients? I've installed Shitpress before, I don't mind making easy money. I might even give some to Nikita.

>11
You find old fucks who have lots of business and a shitty website.  Google your city for lucrative businesses (weddings are a good market, for example), look at their site, give them a call.  Don't email, as most of the old fucks don't know how to or don't put an importance on it. 

Most of these people don't know dick about the Internet.  THat previous client I was talking about in >10 paid me $50 just to remove taskbars from IE7 and change their nameservers. 

OP, from this day forth, you work for $25/hr as a freelance web developer who is a capable of setting up a simple 5-page business-card style website for a flat fee of $500 and two weeks of support after the project is complete.  You can charge more if you're doing more (just itemize each thing).  Remember, the idiot clients that don't know shit just want to write a check and see results.  Market yourself like that.

Just remember, this shit ain't real programming.  I've seen college grads with a dangerous combination of an overinflated ego and ambition crash and burn after they've overextended themselves to taking on difficult jobs.

>>12
Great scheme. Do you happen to be JEWish?

Anyway, thanks, will do.

>10

This is the real Op here. I liked that advice and will keep it in mind for when I approach freelance. I did try to get jobs for the first two months, but was hardly getting any bites. As you said, the competition's tight and some even work for lower pay. I know my way around Photoshop since I do art as a hobby, so the graphic design shouldn't be hard for me. My only obstacle was the Wordpress stuff, but I'll get that stuff on my computer and mess around with it. Shouldn't be as hard as any other concepts I've mess with.

rent you're anus, op

>>10
When I find, I will kill you.

>>1,5,9,14,OP
I feel pity you were taught a mess (CPP), and you feel like one. Do not touch OOP when you can, and use any other programming language than PHP. I recommend Common Lisp, and you an get started right away with stupid Content Management Systems like >>10 to freelance:
http://cliki.net/Web
http://cliki.net/Current%20recommended%20libraries

But that is if you want to go the freelance way. My personal recommendation is to first join a company that already is well developed, learn the trade, get money, get certified, start 2-3 freelance jobs on the side, and if you feel up to it, then freelance.

Freelancing takes more then programming code and creating sites. It takes sales experience, financing, customer retention/satisfaction, contracts/law work, time++, etc.. Doing a quick startpage search, you will find lots of people who have done it, and presented their experience and advise. And starting freelancing by yourself is never a good idea, unless you have most of the market (places with little competition). It is best if you join a firm or group that does contract work.

You are welcome to join us at EIG, where we have lots of work to do.

You are welcome to join us at EIG, where we have lots of work to do.

What.

Also, OP, as someone who has worked freelance in Web Development, and for a company as an actual programmer (C / C++ / etc), I can tell you it's mostly about who you know, or how you present yourself.

If you want to get started, you can look online for entry level positions, whatever they say that you need, lie and say that you know how to work with it. 99% of the time it can be picked up in less than a day anyway. The most important, and hardest step, is getting an interview. Once I'm able to talk to the person face to face, I can show that I know what I'm doing, and nothing else matters.

Usually programming positions will want to give you "tests", like the FizzBuzz bullshit (but less retarded) to see that you can actually program. If at the end of the interview they don't mention the test anymore, then it means you probably got the job.

Getting a job through contacts is also easier, people are more likely to trust someone who's a friend of a friend, or whatever, so mention that you're a programmer and that you provide these services to people when the opportunity arises. Even if they themselves don't need it, they may mention you to someone else, when the topic comes up.

This is if you actually want to work your way up in the field, and eventually get a "proper" position. If you just want to be a nigger for the next few decades then just follow >>10.

>>17
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class yada yada etc so forth...

True dat for the connections part of the job.  However, craigslist isn't a bad place to start, either.  That's how you build your clientele.  You can also go to Meetup.com and find business meetups or web dev meetups (crowded with talent, but my local one actually asks during the meetups for people looking for work).  For the business meetups, introduce yourself as a web development "solutions provider" (businesspeak, learn it to get da cash) and give them your card or contact info.  For web dev stuff, talk webspeak and then maybe get a beer with these people.

The reality of the situation is that staff programmers get no love or respect.  At best, you'll be seen as that worker drone who made them oodles of money or led to their next promotion.  Then you have to do the same thing on your way up the hierarchy.  Freelance avoids a lot of office politicking and instead puts the focus on merit. 

One of the best things about freelancing is that YOU can FIRE clients.  Some asshole is used to going over to oDesk and having their website smell like curry, leaving you to do cleanup?  Fuck that noise, let him rot.  Some dipshit will pay barely above burger flipping for his ecommerce legacy code nightmare?  That'll be $50/hr. or your business can spend another day getting hacked with by Russian SQL injections. 

You have to have this attitude when you go out in the real world and start selling yourself as a freelance web developer.

Otherwise, you truly madly deeply are better off flipping burgers.

All these protips.

Thanks again for the advice guys. It really helped.