Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon. Entire thread

So if it's summer in North America

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-23 21:03

Is it winter in South America?

Sorry, I can't into spherical planets rolling around in space.

Are there any planets that are NOT spheres?

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 0:07

>>36
What would you do instead? Imprison them for life? Do you not realize that that's just a very slow, very expensive death penalty?

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 0:15

>>40
What's wrong with vigilante justice?
No due process of law.  It's so much easier to frame someone and get away with it.  Also, ``payback'' or ``revenge'' aren't justice.

>>38-cretin
feeding and housing mass murders and rapists through their natural life
If you have some process that can magically repair their brain damage and make them honest reliable citizens, I'd love to hear all about it.

not just killing violent criminals
No human or association of humans has the right to decide another human's life.  No, I don't care what they did.  By killing them, you are devaluing my life, so I am very opposed to it.

and making non-violent crimes legal or incurring a monetary fine
There are plenty of things that are ``crimes'' yet aren't actually wrong; possession and small-scale growing of marijuana, breaking of DRM, private not-for-profit file-sharing, infringing on software patents, and the list is (sadly) growing everyday.  Let's not forget that not even a century ago, homosexuality used to be a crime.  You might want to define ``crime'' before you declare the war on it.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 0:23

>>41
Do you not realize that that's just a very slow, very expensive death penalty?
Life as a human is a very slow death penalty.

What would you do instead?
Their brains are obviously all fucked up (since no sane individual would do what they did), so I'd try to fix them.

Imprison them for life?
Prisons are worthless from a reformative standpoint.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 7:06

>>43
Yeah, electroshock therapy and lobotomies are much better than killing or imprisoning people.

Life as a human is a very slow death penalty.
No. The point of the death penalty is to remove a criminal who cannot be reformed from society permanently. Life in prison does the exact same thing, but in a much less efficient way. It is no less cruel than simply killing the person.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 8:02

>>44
Yeah, electroshock therapy and lobotomies are much better than killing or imprisoning people.
Careful there, I never said that.  Psychiatry and psychology aren't the same thing you know.

The point of the death penalty is to remove a criminal who cannot be reformed from society permanently.
That is an unproven assertion, and the death penalty has been used more than once against people who showed that they reformed.  Also, conviction does not imply guilt, and killing people is quite irreversible.

Life in prison does the exact same thing, but in a much less efficient way. It is no less cruel than simply killing the person.
I agree.  There's a better way, and god damn it it sure ain't state-sanctioned murder.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 16:58

>>45
I agree.  There's a better way, and god damn it it sure ain't state-sanctioned murder.
NEURO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMMING

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 17:08

>>42
By killing them, you are devaluing my life, so I am very opposed to it.
How is that so? If it's been shown that person willfully committed a serious offence in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt, why is his life more valuable than an upstanding citizen?

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 17:32

This thread is state-sanctioned sepples.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 18:24

>>47
No, because what if I'm falsely accused or framed?  Knowing that society can lawfully murder me (regardless of circumstances) violates my right to personal safety.  Also, what is the purpose of law?  Pick any:
* Punishment of the criminals;
* Protection of the innocent.

Punishment is retarded because it does nothing but add more grief overall while not really fixing anything (studies showed that longer prison terms are inversely correlated with recidivism).  So it has to be about protection of the innocent and not at all about payback or punishment or settings straight some universal balance.  So we put criminals in prison in order to protect the innocent in society; therefore, if you can fix criminals so they are no longer dangerous, they can be released back into society.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 18:30

>>49
The problem with that is that prison usually doesn't fix them, so you're stuck either keeping them in prison for life (inefficiently killing them), or releasing dangerous criminals back into society.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 18:32

In cases of miscarriages of justice, you can always release someone from prison, but you can't bring someone back from the dead yet.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 18:44

Human life isn't worth anything. Two people fucked and you popped out. Big fucking deal. We kill intelligent animals everyday for food. Killing one sentient life form or another is interchangeable. What are humans? A complex arrangement of cells that encodes data in neurons translating to the message: "I am." Please. You're just as meaningless as the cells of which you are composed, fated to eventually rejoin nature as fungi or maybe deer droppings. If you get in my way, I'll fucking kill you, and it won't mean a damn thing.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 19:18

>>50
The problem with that is that prison usually doesn't fix them
Exactly, so we should focus on make ``prisons'' more efficient at fixing criminals.  Both long (indefinite) prison terms and the death penalty are unacceptable.  For the criminals who are both unfixable, proven guilty and dangerous, I suppose they should be sterilized and exiled to some land reserved for criminals such as Australia.

>>51
Yeah, it would be cool if you could just hibernate people.

>>52
If you get in my way, I'll fucking kill you
You mean, like, infringing your rights, or for less than that?

Name: >>53 2012-10-26 19:19

* making

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 19:25

>>49
Do you not know the term "beyond a reasonable doubt"? There is so much scrutiny involved before deciding whether one is declared guilty with a punishment of death. Death penalty is serious business and judges do not order this penalty every opportunity they get. Firstly, the accused must be shown that no reasonable explanation could explain doubt in the case. Secondly, it must be shown that the accused acted willfully.

The purpose of law is to maintain order in society. Law is a set of rules and associated punishments for infringing on the rules. These rules are intended to maintain social order by establishing legal punishments and boundaries for certain activity. If it can be shown that a rule breaker didn't act willfully, there are other ways to deal with their case such as psychiatric care or assigning a responsible guardian.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 19:31

>>52
What is a man?

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 19:32

>>53
Both long (indefinite) prison terms and the death penalty are unacceptable.
Yeah, rapists, murderers, etc. deserve two years tops.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 19:41

>>57
deserve
The point of law isn't to punish people.  We aren't children, and society isn't our fucking ``strong Christian parent''.  If that's your thing, then go to some niggerland where they haven't gotten past eye-for-an-eye.

If there exists a process that can really reform a rapist or murderer in just two years (so that they are no longer a threat), then I see no reason not to release them.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 19:53

>>55
Do you not know the term "beyond a reasonable doubt"? There is so much scrutiny involved before deciding whether one is declared guilty with a punishment of death.
Fuck.  See >>58.

The purpose of law is to maintain order in society.
So it's okay to indict innocent people as long as order is maintained?

These rules are intended to maintain social order by establishing legal punishments and boundaries for certain activity.
I fucking hate the term ``social order'' because it sounds like you're telling people what to do.  It sounds like ``you must conform with what society tells you or else you'll break our nice beautiful order''.  It's an almost perfect antithesis of civil rights.  ``The stupid masses of manipulated cretins think that cybercriminality is dangerous, so let's make laws to lock down general purpose computers and the Internet''; and it's all to maintain a perceived threat to the ``social order''.  Absolutely despicable.

If it can be shown that a rule breaker didn't act willfully, there are other ways to deal with their case such as psychiatric care or assigning a responsible guardian.
Hah.  I ask you to show me a single murderer or rapist who wasn't sick in the head.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 21:09

>>59
I fucking hate the term ``social order'' because it sounds like you're telling people what to do.  It sounds like ``you must conform with what society tells you or else you'll break our nice beautiful order''.  It's an almost perfect antithesis of civil right
Do you think it's fine to let people park their vehicles in the middle of the street so that it impedes the flow of traffic? Is it ok for people to drive through your property to try and route around the cars parked on the street? Do you think it's fine when people knowingly sell you fish that has dangerous levels of mercury? How about when people dispose their industrial waste improperly it leaks into your water source? Is it fine for people to build a mine next to your house causing pollution to the area and destabilizing the foundations of your house? What if you see a live animal act, an animal hurts a viewer and it can be shown that reasonable measures wasn't taken beforehand?

The point is to establish baselines that maintain social order because people act to the detriment of their neigbors. Rules and punishments are the way humanity achieves this order. This is what I mean by social order. We all live in a society and if everyone maintained their own order without causing detriment, nobody would need formal rules and punishments to regulate one another: we'd all be doing it individually.

So it's okay to indict innocent people as long as order is maintained?
It's not good to indict innocent people. What we can do is apply the principle of "beyond a reasonable doubt" to a case. If there is reasonable doubt, the accused shouldn't receive such a harsh punishment like a death sentence.

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-26 22:06

>>37
Yes

Name: sage 2012-10-26 22:45

sage in all le fields

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-27 0:05

>>60
The point is to establish baselines that maintain social order because people act to the detriment of their neigbors.
You might want to pick a better term, then.  Your concept of ``social order'' is really about enforcing people's rights (e.g. the right to personal safety, the right to know whatever the fuck is in your food, or the right to privacy), and sometimes about establishing a neutral convention where one is required (e.g. cars drive on the right side of the street).  I think your terminology is dangerous because a Taliban could also say that they're just ``enforcing the social order'' (regardless of the countless glaring human rights violations); it's better to look at this from the point of view of the individual, and defining the law in terms of the rights of the individual.

punishments
No, no, no, no, NO!  People don't learn from punishment; actually, in prison, they are likely to become even more broken than they were when they came in.  If you want to actually have less people trampling over other people's rights, then you need to fix the people you find guilty such that when they are released, they understood that what they did was very wrong, and they won't do anything similar ever again.

death sentence
I said it before and I'll say it again, only one person has the right to decide their own life, and it's themselves (yes, I am a supporter of the right to suicide).  By ``signing the social contract'', I expect my right to life to be absolute.  No amount of framing, conspiracy, and fake evidence may curtail my right to life.

Name: Asteriods! 2012-10-27 7:11

>>29
One ENTERPRISE QUALITY COUNTRY: Sweden.

Enjoy Anything Goes in Mafia land!

>>1
That must have been some joint you took. Mind if I have some?

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-27 7:23

>>63
your post left me with tears of joy.

>>64
http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Sweden

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-27 16:55

check 'em

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-27 20:34

>>66
>16:55
>55
nice double dubs!

Name: Anonymous 2012-10-27 21:43

>>67
/polecat kebabs/

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