emacs > mg > elvis > vim = nano

>>39-40
Just make some Lisp-in-a-box-like Emacs+SLIME+SBCL+Paredit+... with a fancy GUI for customizing it all if you want to cater to that specific crowd. It's kind of true that you have to spend an hour or two tweaking to get everything like you'd want it, but I never really met anyone that wanted the exact same features as me.

>>41
That is why I hate Linux: it proposes that user should compile everything from scratch, including writing custom scripts for /etc/initrc.d

>>41
I never really met anyone that wanted the exact same features as me.
Ever seen Java developers? They all want exactly netbeans IDE. If you offer them your Emacs (which, BTW, has Java-mode), they will sodomize you with a cactus.

check my doubles

>>43
Except, you're not targetting Java developers here. Different language, different mindset.

>>45
in what manner?

>>36,38-41
You've completely missed the entire point of Lisp.

>>47
Original CL ran on Lisp-Machines, that had everything out of the box, including GUI toolkit...


It's kind of hard to appreciate the differences (between Zmacs and Emacs) from reading a description. It's even hard to appreciate it from using Zmacs. Where the light dawns is when you've been using Zmacs for a while and go back to using plain old Emacs.

What, you mean there's no keystroke to bring up a list of every change I've made in every file on the box? What, you mean there's code on the box whose source I can't pop up with a keystroke? What, you mean I have to run some sort of tags program on source files before I can find definitions? What, you mean there's code on the box that isn't cross-referenced? What, you mean there's running code on the box whose source I can't step into? What, you mean I can't insert references to objects on the screen into my code just by clicking the screen objects?

Zmacs is tightly integrated with Genera, and it's Lisp all the way down to the microcode. Emacs is great, don't get me wrong, but it's at a different remove from the system.

>>48
What, you mean there's no keystroke to bring up a list of every change I've made in every file on the box?
Easy to implement -- although you might want to consider an actual revision system.

What, you mean there's code on the box whose source I can't pop up with a keystroke?
Feasible.

What, you mean I have to run some sort of tags program on source files before I can find definitions?
Feasible.

What, you mean there's code on the box that isn't cross-referenced?
Feasible.

What, you mean there's running code on the box whose source I can't step into?
Fuck off.  No, seriously, fuck off and die.  A proper optimizing JIT will destroy the debugging information required to step into any code at any time.  Oh sure, you can keep that info around all the time, but that's a bit USELESS.

What, you mean I can't insert references to objects on the screen into my code just by clicking the screen objects?
If you mean what I think you mean then it's feasible.


Lisp is shit, and everything else is worse.

>>48
I do agree that OpenGenera is pretty great, and Emacs+SLIME is close, but still not as decent in some ways (although there are some features that were not on Genera by default).
>>49
Fuck off.  No, seriously, fuck off and die.  A proper optimizing JIT will destroy the debugging information required to step into any code at any time.  Oh sure, you can keep that info around all the time, but that's a bit USELESS.
I love being able to step into/analyze other people's code. Usually it's not too bad with some Lisp implementations where you can just build stuff yourself and thus you'll be able to debug anything. Obviously this has some slight speed penalty.

>>50
I love being able to step into/analyze other people's code. Usually it's not too bad with some Lisp implementations where you can just build stuff yourself and thus you'll be able to debug anything. Obviously this has some slight speed penalty.
What I'm saying is that by default everything should run with debugging disabled so the JIT can just throw away useless stuff (like locals) and do things out-of-order.  Sure, you can start the root process with debugging enabled if you want a 4x systemwide slowdown just so you can step into the TCP stack whenever you penis itches, but normal people don't want that.

>>51
Lisp is not for normal people. Nice try, Steve Jobs' ghost.

>>52
Normal people don't care what their system is implemented in; oh wait, they actually do, that is, when apps segfault because of nurupo dereference.

NANO NANO NANO!!

HAKASE HAKASE HAKASE!!

CHECK 'EM YEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NOTHING GETS ME HARDER THAN A PAIR OF DUBS

CHECK 'EMMMMMMMM

Dear John,

I have come to visit you for the first time in quite a while, and I must say that your board is dreadfully boring.