API vs Framework Programming

So, I fresh installed Ubuntu on a Win7 machine. Thinking, "Hey, Linux, there's a fresh idea to get away from shitty framework after shitty framework." Figured I'd try it out before I abandoned Windows on the side of the road like the spent whore she is.

The install was a cake walk. Started browsing around all these options for compilers, IDE's, and the like. Then started looking up API calls for basic programs (ie. createwindow, msgbox, windows API variants). WTF, people. Has Linux gone the way of MegaShaft Windoze. Hey check out Qt.. check out Gtk. Don't call APIs directly and know what the fuck your doing... no no no. Use this shitty framework with limited options so that your not spending anytime actually learning the system. Point... click... and bloat out your applications with a classes you probably don't even need, because your not going to use all of them.

Seriously people? Is it that programmers are too afraid to call what they need directly?

Don't get me wrong... I can see how having a framework sit around adjusting button sizes and window panels for you could, in fact, be convenient. However, past having something work out the UI for you, that still doesn't excuses programmers that actively make a point to not know wtf it is they're actually doing, what goes into their compiled code, determining the optimization of said code by a framework instead of a compiler and common fucking sense.

Oh yeah... before I forget:
inb4 "you don't understand _________ framework"
inb4 "try out __________ framework, it's easy"
inb4 "why the fuck wouldn't you use a framework" <---- since that dumbass didn't read the orig. post

Qt doesn't bloat out any of my programs at all.

.... /facepalm

>>1-41
Shut the fuck up you fucking spammer moron.

>>42

y u mad?

>>1,3,6-8,14,19-21,23-25,28-31,33-39
SPAWHBTC.

Fuck off back to /b/ and take your tripcode and your ``u mad''s with you.

>>38
fucking globals!

>>38
also, y u use fprintf? NO FRAMEWORKS ALLOWED!

>>44

I feel really tempted to ask, y u mad?

Is it really that difficult for people to ``sage"?

>>48
i don't normally sage threads, but when i do its when i find a particularly shitty thread.( Like this one.)

Holly fucking shit. >>38 was right. >>44 , you did come back more pissed off. That's kinda epic on >>38's part.

I always viewed frameworks as a matter of convenience. One would normally use frameworks unless one has a good reason to use more primitive API.

>>51
To be specific, I use API to create custom controls. Past that, I get much better control over my user interface, and the addition of increased program speed. For instance (like I said, I just came from windoze):

In Visual C++ .NET: A blank app, with just a single window normally hits around 13Kb compiled, and runs @ 2612 ms.

In Visual C++: 7.9Kb @ 1266 ms

In GNU C++: 3.2Kb @ 399 ms

A single button increases all that; however, when you make your own controls you can leave out any thing you already know you don't need.

>>52
Wow you sound just like FV. Hey guys, we have the successor to In Lisp.

>>53
Lisp... oh god no. No offense to Lisp programmers... but I'm a C/C++ guy.

Okay... I'm in agreement that OP is kinda a douche about what he's talking about. But reading this thread has me curious.

Why is API programming bad?

>>55
Don't fan the flames. API Programming is what you do because you can't get a job, and have the time off to play around with caveman code. No real consumer based applications call API directly. No real programmer in the MODERN age does without a framework. The OP was smart to get away from .NET but that's as far as it goes.

>>56

+1 for avoiding the question.
+1 for rage.
-100 for the .NET hate.

I love my .NET, I'm still wondering though, why is API programming bad. I mean, so far I've heard that it speeds up your dev time. But that's it.

>>57 You obviously don't know enough about your own OS. The very reason you don't have access to API is because it's so primitive. That faggish .NET you love so much is the only thing keeping you programming.

>>55,58
Not so.. I recently did a project that used raw sockets. In .NET you don't have access to raw sockets anymore. You have to use API calls and build the packets yourself. So yeah. Using API directly gives you more options than using a Framework. And as I recall the same is true in Qt as well.

>>58
You do realie the MSDN library gives examples on how to call each function through API, right?

>>50
I'm actually >>5,44 and that's it, I'm not that other guy.