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Lisp. Lisp is the only language

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 10:29

Why there are other programming languages besides Lisp? With Lisp's macro system you can create any language you need ever. Small, big, finely tuned for your task. Supporting other languages means opposing progress and delaying the inevitable future. There should be only one language and myriad languages at the same time. The one language is Lisp.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 10:31

Not as good as Java.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 10:36

>>1
````in Lisp'' guy'' detected.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 11:07

>>1
Lisp has been around long enough that if it was going to make any dent in software engineering in general it would have already done so a long time ago and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 11:10

>>4
YEAH! TELL IT LIKE IT IS!

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 11:11

>>4
This. Very this.
Also Lisp is homofaggotgay

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 11:36

>>1
The only smart person on /prog/ detected.

>>2,4-6
Your shitty languages are reimplementing half of Common Lisp now (the tenth rule), see C# and anonymous functions, Sepples and anonymous functions, Java and garbage collection, Ruby and symbols, Python and no, Python just sucks, etc.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 11:52

>>7
no.one.cares.about.lisp
what's it gonna take to get that through your thick head
it's a footnote in the history of programming languages

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 11:56

>>8
Explain why everyone is taking features from it and gets it reimplemented badly in his toy inferior language.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:00

>>9
Because you are a fanboi who who wants to believe that folks are copying your beloved languages features rather the the simple expediency of implementing the same solutions to the same problems in different contexts.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:14

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:17

>>10
You're just denying the evidence.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:24

LISP isnt a language, cuz it doesnt have any syntax. LISP is an operating system.

The existence of an interpreter and the absence of declarations makes it particularly natural to use LISP in a time-sharing environment. It is convenient to define functions, test them, and re-edit them without ever leaving the LISP interpreter. A demonstration of LISP in a prototype time-sharing environment on the IBM 704 was made in 1960 (or 1961). (See Appendix 2). L. Peter Deutsch implemented the first interactive LISP on the PDP-1 computer in 1963, but the PDP-1 had too small a memory for serious symbolic computation.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:26

>>12
It is you that wants to believe so badly, thus in your own mind you make "the evidence" true. I personally don't care about who borrows what from whom.
You are quite simply delusional, Mister Lisper faggot.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:27

Lisp isn’t really a programming language. It’s a consistent system for defining programming languages in general. That is why learning it is difficult– you’re going up into a level abstraction that you never imagined could exist.

Lisp isn't really a language at all. It's more of a mathematical entity. You might say it wasn't invented but discovered. In fact if there is intelligent life in the universe and they have computers I'll bet they have something equivalent to Lisp too.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:29

>>15
Wow that's some good bullshit you are smoking right there.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:30

>>16
stop butthurting

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:33

>>17
Stop smoking crack, son. Then you will wake up to that Lisp is nothing more than an academic curiosity of limited practical value.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:33

* wake up to the fact even...

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 12:51

>>7

Your shitty languages are reimplementing half of Common Lisp
now

But they also throw away the other half, that makes CLisp one of the shittiest languages ever created by mankind.

Name: Doctor Racket !RACKET/.HY 2011-01-31 12:55

>>1

For the same reason Forth is dead: the language gives too much freedom.
Forth and Lisp are similiar but also very different, both give the programmer the ability to extend every part of the language, creating DSLs, and have a consistent non-syntax. The only difference, is that the Forth programmer works near the hardware, at low level, where the Lisp programmer works on top of an abstraction layer, creating more abstractions.
They both are the ultimate languages, they gives you everything you need.
That's the problem with them, you need to master the language, understand it, start thinking in it, become one with it to use it properly.
If we only had these two essential languages, programming would really be something ``for smart people only''. (and learning the art of it would also really make you smarter)

"SQL, Lisp, and Haskell are the only programming languages that I've seen where one spends more time thinking than typing." -- Philip Greenspun

The Fortran/Algol branch of languages has become more widespread because they are braindead.
Pick a random language from that branch, you'll see that they have hardcoded, ``nice-looking'' statements for the most common operations, such as loops, ifs, etc, all of them with a different syntax. This makes them easier to learn for non-programmers, at the cost of the programmer's freedom and power.

Then, C and UNIX came, UNIX was a really simple system, everything was a file and didn't have a versioning filesystem. It had flaws, many flaws, you can read some in the UNIX Haters Handbook, but most of the problems it addresses don't apply anymore.
So, C was inferior to Lisp and Forth, UNIX was inferior to Lisp Machines, why in the world they replaced them?
They are simple, everyone can use them without having to think and learn how to use them.
C is a static language, you've got if, while, for, goto and return, you must use these and nothing else, you can't add anything to it.
In UNIX, everything is a file. The concept of a file, without attaching versioning informations and such to it, is really simple, everyone can understand it. Could you explain your grandmother how a file in a complex versioning filesystem works? I can't. Could you explain her, instead, what would it be in a simple filesystem? ``You write your stuff in this file, then you archive it, when you need to modify it you take it again and do your modifications, then rearchive.''

The time passed, and we developed a Stockholm syndrome torwards UNIX and Fortran-based languages.
The Lisp/Forth-aware people can't do anything but suffer in silence.
It's sad, but the men it's just limiting its evolution.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 13:03

>>21
a consistent non-syntax.
There we go.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 13:12

>>21
The Lisp/Forth-aware people can't do anything but suffer in silence.
Because they sure as hell can't program anything that would make lisp useful for a real project (or demonstrate that it is).

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 13:12

OP status == told

Name: Doctor Racket !RACKET/.HY 2011-01-31 13:19

>>22
Does ``a consistent, simple syntax'' make you happier?

>>23
I can understand your ignorance about Lisp, but Forth, come on, have you tried to do something more than running gcc main.c -Wall -Werror -O3 -march=native -msse2 -fomit-frame-pointer -fomg-optimized?
I thought /prog/ had smarter people than this.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 13:29

>>25
``You're just not smart enough to use our shittyultimate perfect tools.''  This is how you attract users.  God forbid you actually fix any of the problems in them.

Name: Doctor Racket !RACKET/.HY 2011-01-31 13:49

>>26
The Lisp community in general doesn't bite newcomers, it is actually helpful and kind. But if we get attacked by people that doesn't know what they're talking about, why shouldn't we defend ourselves?
There are Lisp fanatics that say ``Hah! You damned fool, using an inferior language, you'll never be allowed to use the Omnipotent Language Lisp.'' and take away people that might be interested in it, giving the wrong impression about Lispers.

I'm always there when it comes to help someone that's new to Lisp and/or wants to know more. I also list the pros and cons of using Lisp in 2011, and suggest to use C, which is fundamental to know when dealing with Unix-like systems.

You may note, I also mentioned Forth as ``ultimate language'', if I really was the elitist Lisper you think I am, I would just sell Lisp as ``the One and Only True Language'', but Forth excels in things Lisp is not meant to handle.
You can't deny they've got features that other languages don't have.

The only who's being elitist here is you: ``Lisp, Forth, your ``ultimate'' shitty language sucks, learn Java, faggot!''

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 14:27

>>27
Forth excels in things Lisp is not meant to handle.
You know, you can have Forth DSL in LISP?

(crappy-concatenative-style-macro-for-faggots dup rot swap swap3 dup swap dup2 rot swap drop drop drop)

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 14:28


swap [uncons uncons pop] dip uncons uncons pop dip uncons swapd cons cons cons cons dupd swap ;

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 14:35

List splicing in Forth is a nightmare

Name: Doctor Racket !RACKET/.HY 2011-01-31 14:38

>>28
Of course I know, but I meant that Forth is much more low-level-oriented than Lisp, which is all abstracting the hardware away.
And yes, I know Lisp could work at low-level too (Lisp Machines were Lisp all the way down, after all), but with Forth seems much more natural.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 14:42

>>31
enjoy your stack sex.

Name: Doctor Racket !RACKET/.HY 2011-01-31 14:43

>>32
I'm not a Forth programmer, sorry.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 14:53

I can't tell who's trolling anymore.

>>1? >>2-6,8.10-11,14,16,18-20,22-24,26? >>7,9,13,15,17,28-30,32? >>21,25.27,31,33?
WHO THE FUCK IS TROLLING WHO‽

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 14:53

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 16:17

>>34
* WHOM

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 16:53

Prime Number GET

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 16:54

And then the thread died.

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 17:29

13
*   3
_____
   39  GET

Name: Anonymous 2011-01-31 21:57

bump

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